EPS 35. "I Lost Myself in Motherhood": How a Former Sales Manager Turned Stay-at-Home Mom Found Herself Again

In today's episode of Overcaffeinated and Out of Effs I'm joined by Michelle Kivisto, a current marketing specialist and former sales manager who stepped away from her career for 10 years to become a stay-at-home mom. What she didn't expect was how quietly she would begin to lose her sense of identity in the process.

After reentering the workforce as a marketing specialist, Michelle found creative outlets that helped her reconnect with herself and build community beyond motherhood. Today Michelle shares her truth about loving her children deeply while still missing herself.

In this conversation we talk about:

• The emotional shift from career woman to stay-at-home mom

• The subtle sights that she was losing her sense of self

• The guilt and internal conflict that came with wanting something, “just for her”

• The steps she took to reclaim her identity outside her role as a mom

• How improv classes and memoir writing helped Michelle reconnect with herself

• What her transition looked like when returning to the workforce after years at home

• Why having an identity outside of motherhood actually makes you a more present partner and mom

  
  

If you've been feeling emotionally exhausted, disconnected or unsure of who you even are anymore, this conversation might just give you permission to take one small step back toward yourself.

Find Michelle at:

Instagram: yesandyoutoo

Facebook: yesandyoutoo

[00:04] Christi Gmyr: Welcome to Overcaffeinated and Out of Effs, the podcast for burned out, career-minded moms who are ready to stop pretending everything's fine and feel like themselves again.

[00:15] I'm your host, Christi Gmyr, burnout coach for moms, licensed therapist and mom of two. And I'm here to help you reclaim your energy, your identity, and your peace of mind.

[00:25] Whether you're lying awake thinking about the 87 things you didn't get done or silently resenting the people you love most,

[00:32] This is your space to feel seen, supported, and not so alone.

[00:36] So grab your coffee, hot, cold or day old, and let's get into it.

[00:47] Hey everybody, it's Christi.

[00:49] Welcome to Overcaffeinated and Out of Effs.

[00:53] In today's episode, I'd like to welcome our guest, Michelle Kivisto.

[00:58] Michelle is a marketing specialist, wife and mother of two.

[01:02] After six successful years in sales management, followed by 10 years as a stay at home mom, she re entered the workforce and rediscovered her own identity. Along the way,

[01:12] through improv and memoir writing, Michelle found creative outlets that helped her reconnect with herself and build community beyond motherhood.

[01:20] She performed for several years with the all women's improv group Susan B. Anything and continues to write regularly.

[01:29] So I've invited Michelle here today to talk about,

[01:33] she's going to share a little bit about her personal story, you know, specifically around her decision to step back from her career for a while after becoming a mom,[01:43] how she felt and then how she felt like she lost herself a bit in motherhood. You know, she's going to talk a little bit about,

[01:49] you know, how she needed to find something that was just for her and then the steps to that she took to reclaim her identity outside of her role as a mom.

[01:59] So Michelle, thank you so much for being here today.

[02:03] Michelle Kivisto: Hi, thank you for having me.

[02:05] Christi Gmyr: Yeah. Do you mind, can we start off just maybe by you telling us a little bit, you know, about yourself and your family? You know, you mentioned that you used to work as a sales manager for six years before becoming a stay at home mom.[02:17] So, you know, also maybe just tell us a little bit about what life was like for you before.

[02:23] Before you made that decision to become a stay home mom.

02:26] Michelle Kivisto: Sure. So when I started off work as a sales manager, I was newly engaged

[02:33] Christi Gmyr: and

[02:36] Michelle Kivisto: my husband, I husband to be and I were busy planning a wedding,

[02:41] getting our apartment ready and then after our wedding getting a house ready and you know, all the things that come along with that.

[02:50] So I was um, you know, planning trips with my Husband and, you know,

[02:56] doing all the things that, you know, newlyweds do, but also kind of finding myself having a lot of free time.

[03:09] It was really great. But having a,

[03:11] it was in a sales manager in retail. So retail work is unpredictable. Your schedule is kind of all over the place, especially around the holidays. It would get really crazy and, you know, you're working night shifts, mid shifts, day shifts, and, you know, not having a lot of time off together,

[03:32] like traditional weekends and things like that.

[03:35] So my husband and I would kind of, you know, carve out time to go on dates and, you know,

[03:40] plan trips when I did get time off, which was really, really nice. And then we had a family friend visit with her son and she had another one on the way and she was kind of like, okay, Michelle, when's it your turn?

[03:55] And my husband and I just had so much fun with her and her family that weekend that it started to, you know, start the conversation. Not that I hadn't heard it already from my mom, especially, you know, when am I getting grandkids?

[04:09] But it was a time when we had both finally decided,

[04:14] you know, now's the time to start.

[04:17] And being a sales manager, Being pregnant as a sales manager was really hard,[04:23] I imagine. Yeah, on my feet, on the floor. But I also had morning sickness all the time.

[04:32] Luckily, work was very forgiving about that. You know, I could go off the sales floor if I needed to, grab a snack if I needed to, or, you know, just kind of like sit down when I needed to, you know, like in the shoe department and just kind of take a seat,

[04:44] pretend to be a customer for a couple, couple minutes.

[04:48] But then we decided that we had the resources available to let me take a step back from that and be a stay at home mom. Which is a conversation we had before getting pregnant.

[04:59] But once that was in place, then a couple months before I gave birth, I stopped working and was able to stay at home for the next 10 years.

[05:10] Christi Gmyr: Wow.

[05:11] Well, and so I'm wondering, you know,

[05:13] so you talked about how you and your husband started having those conversations, you know, about you being a stay home mom. You said you'd had those conversations a little bit before that.

[05:23] Was that sort of always how you imagined things? Did you always want to be a stay at home mom? And I'm curious, like, what did you imagine life as a stay at home mom would look like for you?

[05:36] Michelle Kivisto: So when I was younger, probably about 10 or 11,

[05:39] I made the declaration to my mom,

[05:42] I'm going to be a fun aunt. I'm not going to have my own kids.

[05:46] I had really good examples of fun aunts, and I was just like, oh, that's exactly what I want to be. I want to, you know, be able to do my own thing, but also, you know, be in these children's lives and help shape them in good ways and, you know,

[05:58] do all the things and then be able to retreat and go home after and get my sleep in and get my naps in and, you know,

[06:05] not be overstimulated by noise or,

[06:08] you know, be responsible for meals and all the things that go along with parenting.

[06:15] It really wasn't until I was married and literally had that friend come and visit that it literally just planted the seed,

[06:26] you know, kind of like, do I even want this? What would this look like?

[06:31] So that was in my early 30s that that happened.

[06:36] And it was.

[06:38] So it's kind of revelatory.

[06:39] Christi Gmyr: It sounds like it wasn't even.

[06:41] Well, it sounds like, you know, it wasn't kids at all. Like kids of your own. Right. You picture yourself as being the aunt, but having your own kids. It sounds like that was something that really you started to think about later.

[06:51] So that wasn't part of your initial plan when you originally were working.[06:56] That sort of came later when you started, when you had that visit, when you had that experience. So then what, like, what did you imagine that would be like for you once you started to think in that way?

[07:09] Michelle Kivisto: Yeah, so when I was younger, I would babysit a lot. Like, I was the go to BabySitter. I have three younger sisters and I would watch them a lot. But we also had a lot of family friends and relatives.

[07:21] I had a lot of cousins,

[07:23] and I was always surrounded by kids. So I always felt like, I know what this is about, I know what this life is,

[07:29] and kind of like, I don't want that for myself. I God bless everyone else who has kids, but not for me.

[07:37] And I kind of imagined when I finally made that transition into wanting to be a mom, like, okay, this is going to be like a really long babysitting job with no break.

[07:49] The parents aren't coming home.

[07:52] I'm not going to get to leave with some cash in hand and be able to go and spend it at the mall the next day. Day,

[07:59] this is gonna be, you know, a lifelong thing.

[08:03] And so I gave myself the time to kind of wrap my head around that. But of course, it was still completely different than I thought it would be.

[08:12] Christi Gmyr: Of course, I imagine so when you say, okay, so it was very different than what you imagined it would like, so you were thinking about it in terms of, like, this really long babysitting job, you know.

[08:26] But you had also talked, you know, a little bit at the beginning about how you felt like you eventually ended up sort of losing your identity, losing yourself, you know, in that motherhood role.

[08:37] Was that something, I imagine that might have been a bit of a surprise. Right. So how were you sort of imagining,

[08:44] you know, motherhood was going to become a part of your identity? Which it did. But also, it sounds like in other ways there were some surprises for you too.

[08:56] Michelle Kivisto: Yeah,

[08:58] the way that I imagined it would be, like,

[09:01] sunshine, flowers,

[09:03] absolute fulfillment, you know, kind of like, my bucket is absolutely full. This is everything that it could be.

[09:10] And this is fantastic.

[09:13] Unfortunately, I had some pregnancy complications,

[09:16] morning sickness all the time. With my first, I had preeclampsia right at the very end, and I had to be induced.

[09:23] And that caused some mental trauma,

[09:27] I would say, because it really wasn't the birth I was expecting.

[09:32] Um, I was just like, okay, I'm gonna go in, I'm gonna get the epidural. I'm gonna come out with a baby a few days later. Things are great.

[09:39] Um, in the hospital, they were like,

[09:41] the baby has some jaundice, has to go under the lights. Um, you know,

[09:46] breastfeeding was a challenge,

[09:48] and I really didn't consider formula feeding at all.

[09:53] And it. I think I had some.

[09:56] Is it mastitis?

[09:58] Yeah.

[09:59] But didn't seek help for it because I didn't know what it was really.

[10:03] And it was just kind of like, okay, I've got this village, I've got the support team.[10:09] But I wasn't asking for help. I wasn't going out and seeking help for myself because I didn't know.[10:17] You don't know what you don't know.

[10:18] Christi Gmyr: Yeah.

[10:19] Michelle Kivisto: So in that way, it was very different than how I imagined it, because before being a sales manager, I'm kind of like, I know what I'm doing. I'm active. I can coach my team, I can get the sales,

[10:30] I can, you know, set the floor. I can get the merchandise out. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. I know what to do.[10:36] And all of a sudden, it was just like, this is all unscripted

 and there's no manual,

[10:40] and I had no idea what to do next.

[10:45] Christi Gmyr: So it sounds like the realities of day to day life ended up being different than what you expected. You know, you had your ideas, which we all do. And to your point, like, we don't know what we don't know.

[10:57] And so it sounds like There were some surprises for you.

[11:02] I'm curious. So in terms of taking that step back, you know, going from, you know, working this job,

[11:08] now you're a stay at home mom and you are focusing on a very different part of your identity.

[11:16] What was that experience like for you, emotionally?

[11:22] Michelle Kivisto: Emotionally, I kind of felt adrift.[11:26] Not really tethered to anything. I had my kids and,

[11:30] you know, that was kind of like one foot in front of the other, make the food, draw the bath,

[11:36] read the stories, cuddle, nap time,

[11:39] you know, get one to preschool, get the other, you know,

[11:44] down for a nap, and time to pick the other one up from school again. And then Tim comes home and we make dinner. And then it was the, the witching hour,

[11:54] which threw me for a surprise.

[11:56] And then it's potty training and it's all these things. It's literally just one foot in front of the other. It felt like, and it didn't really feel like there was a lot of head space for.

[12:08] How does Michelle feel? What's going on inside my head today?

[12:11] What could I be doing better for myself?

[12:16] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, no, the ba. I mean, the baby years, the infant stages are really, I mean, they're all just challenging in different ways. Right. Every single stage has its challenges. But those infant years can realize, can really, really be tough.

[12:30] Um, especially because it is, It's a huge adjustment.

[12:33] Um, what about in terms of being a stay at home mom in particular?

[12:39] Like, what were some of the biggest challenges for you around that,

[12:44] um, how

[12:44] Michelle Kivisto: to frame my time.

[12:46] Um, I kind of figured out early on routine was best.

[12:50] Um, figuring out set times to feed the kids,

[12:55] times that I'm like, okay, at least one day this week, I need to get out of my house.[13:00] Even if the kids, you know, struggle and don't want to get in their car seats and don't want to get, you know, coats on, I need to get out of the house.

[13:07] I need to get out of these four walls.

[13:10] Reaching out to friends when I could, just to talk on the phone,

[13:14] just to kind of talk to other adults was really, really good for me.

[13:21] Being able to just kind of sit with a cup of hot coffee some days, you know, it was just the best thing that I could do for myself and made sure I would take a shower.

[13:33] Like, it's just really simple things sometimes.

[13:37] Christi Gmyr: Well, yeah, And I think, you know,

[13:40] parent, like, being a mom has its challenges. Regardless of what your specific work life balance kind of looks like, what your home and work life looks like, you know, it's going to be challenging for Everybody.

[13:53] But it is going to. Those challenges are going to be different. Right? And so for moms who maybe work outside of the home,

[13:59] that brings up about, like, a lot of stress and challenges. But one of the benefits that a lot of people talk about is being able to have that break, have some space from home, from kids.

[14:12] Because as much as we love our kids, having them around us 24 hours away,

[14:17] 24 hours a day with no break is a lot, you know, and so as a stay at home mom,[14:23] you weren't getting those breaks throughout the day in the same kind of way.[14:27] And so, I mean, when you talk about, like, needing to get out of the house,

[14:32] you know, needing to, you know, talk to your friends and things like that, it sounds like you had to be very intentional about that to make sure that you were kind of getting some space.

[14:41] And even in those situations, it sounds like you were still bringing the kids with you, so maybe not having that separation. I mean, did you find that you ever really got any time for yourself aside from the kids?

[14:55] Michelle Kivisto: Great question. It was something that I would definitely have to put on the calendar and schedule because it's not something that I would always think about. I always felt tethered to them, you know, kind of like my time away from them felt like, what's going on right now?

[15:10] What are they doing? Not that my husband was completely capable parent and very hands on and, you know, knew how to change the diapers and make the food and, you know, put them down for naps,

[15:21] but it still felt like part of, you know, like my arm is, you know, muscle memory, missing my kid, you know, on my hip right now.

[15:30] But I would still trying to make time for, you know, book clubs with my friends once a month or just going out to get something to eat with somebody.

[15:39] But it was always like, okay, you know, time to get home, you know, time to get back.

[15:45] It was never really like, my mind was free to go without responsibilities, you know?[15:52] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. So when did you first start to realize that you were. Were starting to lose a sense of yourself and motherhood?

[16:02] Michelle Kivisto: So I started to get really jealous of my husband's commute to work.

[16:08] I got really jealous of the time that he took in the morning while the kids were sleeping to shower and get ready because there was another adult in the house that was responsible if the kids got up and they started,

[16:20] you know,

[16:22] to stir, that someone else could take care of their needs. And when I was in the house alone,

[16:27] it was just me.

[16:28] And so I'd literally, you know, Put the kids in the carrier and put them into the shower room with me so I could hear them or you know, wait to take a shower at night after they went to bed and then go to head soaking wet hair, which wasn't ideal.

[16:43] I just realized that I really needed to carve out time for myself.

[16:48] But it also,

[16:49] that wasn't necessarily a meal with someone or a book club or just time for myself with my own thoughts and my own feelings.

[17:01] Christi Gmyr: Well, and then, you know, yeah, having that time, you know, to yourself. But then also it sounds like there was really a desire to explore other passions, other interests. You know, you eventually moved into,

[17:18] you know, you talk about improv and memoir writing, you know, you were getting into that.

[17:23] What inspired you to sort of explore some of those things?

[17:28] Michelle Kivisto: So when my youngest was 2 years old,

[17:31] she's 11 now,

[17:34] I got an email from the YMCA and it said we had our kids in swim lessons at the time.

[17:42] And it was an email that said,

[17:45] do you know that you have other amenities available to you?

[17:50] We offer free writing classes at our downtown writer center. Would you like to sign up for one? And I looked at the class listing and one of them was improv comedy writing.[18:02] I'm like,

[18:03] oh my gosh. I grew up watching so many comedy movies with my dad, airplane hot shots and,

[18:11] you know, plane trains and automobiles. And I'm kind of like, oh, I would really love to try taking this class.

[18:18] It was once a week from 6 to 9 at night.

[18:22] And it was right in the middle of our youngest bedtime, like putting her down for bed.

[18:30] But my husband was like, we're going to make it work. If this is something you want to do, we're going to make it work. And he would drop me off and then come and pick me up at 9 o'.

[18:39] Clock. And the kids would be kind of climbing the walls of the car because they were exhausted and tired. But I would just excitedly like,

[18:49] guess what we did in class tonight? And I came up with this thing and I came up with that thing and the teacher really liked it and the students really reacted.

[18:55] And it was just like me coming alive again,

[18:59] you know, kind of like in this new way that I hadn't experienced in a really long time. It's like coming back from a great night out with friends and being like, oh my gosh, I talked to this person and this person and then I danced to this song.

[19:12] And then, you know, it's just kind of like that kind of thrill,

[19:16] that kind of energy that I just was like, I, I need this more.

[19:21] Christi Gmyr: Well, and one thing that I. You mentioned that I just sort of wanted to point out, you know, is this idea that the YMCA reached out to you, right, and they offered, you know, they told you about these classes.

[19:34] And I think that that's something that's just so important to remember, that I just want to mention is that, you know, I think a lot of moms are struggling with different kinds of things,

[19:44] and they don't always know where to go for help and support. And there really are a lot of resources available. There are a lot of things out there, you know,

[19:56] within the community, let's say, you know, obviously, everybody's community is going to look a little bit different, but I. I just want to sort of point that out so that people just as a reminder to really kind of ask some of those questions and to explore what might be available in the area,

[20:10] just because,

[20:12] you know, sometimes there are things out there that we're not even aware of that can be incredibly helpful, you know. But.

[20:18] But coming back to what you're talking about a minute ago, you know, you were talking about, you know, you had said that, like, the class was right in the middle of bedtime, six to nine,

[20:26] hard enough for a lot of moms to step away, you know, and especially in a time when there's, like, so

 much going on.

[20:33] And I know a lot of moms really sort of struggle with that idea, and even if they know that it's okay emotionally, it can still be a real difficult step to take.

[20:43] So I'm curious, like, how is that for you? Your husband said, you know, if it's important, we'll make it work. How is that for you, actually getting yourself to take that step, Step.

[20:52] Leave the house, go to the class. You know, the first time, knowing that it was during bedtime and you were taking time to do something for yourself,

[21:00] it was.

[21:01] Michelle Kivisto: It was a real emotional buildup for me. Kind of like, this is okay.[21:05] They're not gonna die. You know, like, that's the fear of when your kids are younger. Like, every wrong move means that they are going to be taken away from you in this mortal way.

[21:16] And it's kind of like, no, they're gonna. It's gonna disrupt bedtime for a night,

[21:21] and I'm not working.

[21:23] So if they need the extra sleep in the morning or they're cranky the next day, I'll be there to deal with it, you know, like,

[21:31] it's not like it's going to affect us in this hugely detrimental way,

[21:36] is what I was hoping going into it.

[21:39] Christi Gmyr: Yeah.

[21:40] Michelle Kivisto: And before that would have definitely held me back thinking, like, this is too much. My kids can't take this. They can't react to this in a good way. You know, this is going to,

[21:51] you know, cause huge ripples and shockwaves in our little ecosystem,

[21:55] in our family. But having my husband's support,

[21:59] you know, being able to drop me off,

[22:01] I think really helped because it meant, like, I couldn't doubt myself for the half hour drive there.

[22:07] And I couldn't just turn around and be like, nope, not tonight. I'm just going to go back. It's okay.

[22:12] You know, I think it was really, really great knowing, like, oh, my kids are here. When I get out, I get to see them. Everything's okay. Everything's all right. You know,[22:22] no one dislikes mommy because of, you know, her leaving for the past three hours.[22:27] Everything's all right.

[22:28] Christi Gmyr: I love that you said that too. Right? Nobody dislikes mommy. Because I feel like that's another thing that a lot of people struggle with. Not necessarily that they're afraid that their kids are going to like them, but for a lot of moms, there is this concern around what is this doing for our relationship?

[22:43] You know, am I. If I take time to myself, you know, Whereas maybe they believe they should be spending that time with their kids, you know, and that can be a real concern for a lot of people.

[22:55] And I love that you said, you know,

[22:57] there was no dislike for mommy. Right. I was able to go do the thing I was able to do. My class come out, my kids were still there,

[23:03] and it sounds like everything was good, everything was okay.

[23:07] Um, did you find that the. Those emotional challenges became easier for you as time went on and as you went to the class more regularly?

[23:18] Michelle Kivisto: So, yeah, the class was, I think, six to eight weeks. So that class went fantastic.

[23:23] Um, I was like, okay, I'm gonna do this again. Right. First time, charm. Second time, even easier.

[23:29] It was a morning class, and it was in memoir writing, specifically memoir for moms.[23:36] And at the culmination of the class,

[23:38] you were to submit a story to read out loud at a festival in Rochester for listen to your mother is what it was called.

[23:50] And it was people getting up on stage and reading stories about motherhood or moms or the relationships. And I was like, oh, this is right up my alley. This is going to be great.

[23:59] I love this.

[24:00] And the teacher was really dynamic, and it was wonderful.

[24:04] But the time shift and the fact that my youngest or my oldest was at preschool,[24:10] my youngest was going to be with Me, my husband was at work, so the dynamics changed. It was me in the car,

[24:16] driving my daughter across town to meet up with my mom, who was going to take her and watch her while I was at class.

[24:23] She fought me every single week in the car.

[24:26] Christi Gmyr: Oh, no.

[24:27] Michelle Kivisto: Didn't want to put on her coat. Didn't want to get in the car seat. Didn't want to travel in the car. Didn't.

[24:34] It was a real struggle that really, really tested me and tested my patience and tested, how much do I really want to do this? Is this detrimental to her? Is this, you know, doing terrible things for her psyche?

[24:48] But I also knew I also needed this,

[24:52] you know,

[24:54] and that was me kind of being selfish.

[24:56] But at the same time, I was kind of like, all right,

[25:00] what's the take? Takeaway is that my child is getting time with her grandma and her grandpa, and I'm doing something that gets me out of the house. It's once a week.[25:11] It's only for a couple hours,

[25:13] and it's only for a few weeks at a time. And then, you know, this is going to go on from there. We'll see what happens next.

[25:21] Christi Gmyr: Well, and I would also challenge. You know, you said right just now that, you know, you were doing something selfish, and I have a challenge, you know,[25:28] but I don't think that's selfish. Right. You. You were doing something for yourself, which not only are you allowed to do, you know, it's okay for you to do that, but we need to do things for ourselves, you know, and then not only is that important,

[25:42] you know, because it's a way of taking care of ourselves, but it also does. It benefits the kids, it benefits our partners, it benefits the other people in our lives,

[25:50] you know, when we. When we take those kinds of steps, you know, and you've even mentioned before that these hobbies that they make you a better mom and a better partner.

[26:01] Right. So just now, you were talking about how maybe you were having a hard time staying patient, but it also sounds like by doing this class, you know, by doing these classes, you actually felt like you were able to show up in a way that felt better for you,[26:14] you know, for them as well. I'm wondering if you can say more about that.

[26:18] Michelle Kivisto: Yeah.

[26:19] Thank you for what you said about the selfish remark, because in my head, I felt like I was definitely justified in doing it. But from the outside, what does this look like?[26:29] So it feels so good to have that validation. I appreciate it. Thank you.

[26:33] Christi Gmyr: Yeah. Of course.[26:35] Michelle Kivisto: As far as how it affects my. I'm Sorry. You said, how does it affect my relationship with.

[26:43] Christi Gmyr: Well, yeah, I'm curious how. How these hobbies have helped make you a better mom and a better partner.

[26:50] Michelle Kivisto: Yes. So being able to speak directly to my experiences, being able to say the hard things out loud in class with other people is really, really uplifting. It can be really difficult and emotional and saying the things that, oh, my gosh, people are going to judge me and think I'm terrible for saying some of this stuff.

[27:13] But then people are like, oh, yeah, I went through that, too. This is how I handled it. You're handling it beautifully.

[27:18] What are you talking about?

[27:20] Or people are just like, oh, my gosh. The way that you just said that.

[27:26] You have a real talent for writing. This is fantastic. You should keep going with this.

[27:30] Or, you know, it was always coming from a place of encouragement.

[27:35] People were really, really kind with their words,

[27:43] knowing. I think that I kind of felt fragile and vulnerable in terms of being a parent.[27:50] I kind of realized, like, my kids are also very vulnerable.

[27:56] And the way that I kind of wrote about being a mother, but also being a daughter made me realize that I want to be the kind of parent that,

[28:09] you know, would take care of little Michelle. Um, one of the other students in classes talked about taking care of big me and taking care of little me, and I want big me to take care of little me, and what would that look like?

[28:22] And that always kind of stuck in my head. So to talk to my kids, I'm just like, okay. Instead of coming at this from a point of frustration,

[28:30] let me come at this from a point of curiosity.

[28:33] Why are you having these big feelings right now? Is there something else going on? Did something happen at school?

[28:40] Is it a sensory thing? Are your clothes too itchy for you right now and you need to get out of them because it feels like they're, you know, tearing your skin off.

[28:49] Is the temperature off? Is there, you know, too much stimulation? Is the noise level too loud?

[28:55] They don't like traveling in the car because,

[28:58] you know,

[28:59] the sounds off or the radio is turned to the wrong station or,

[29:03] you know,

[29:06] it kind of made me much more aware of what my kids are susceptible to. They're not just little adults. They are kids learning things for the very first time. And I shouldn't expect so much from them.

[29:19] I should just, you know, kind of more. Meet them where they are.

[29:23] Christi Gmyr: Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely. So it sounds like it really helped you in terms of, like, sort of managing your expectations and then,

[29:31] you know, inter. And then affecting how you approached them. How you approach these conversations, how you approach these different kinds of challenges that might have, that might have been coming up.

[29:41] And it sounds like all of that you feel like really tied back to your efforts to find hobbies that felt important to you and to really just do things for yourself.

[29:53] Michelle Kivisto: And then with my relationship

 with my husband,

[29:57] it really helped me regain,

[30:00] I won't say like, a better footing,

[30:02] but he got to drive me to Rochester to perform in person for an audition.

[30:11] They got my story and they were like, you know, if you want to come and perform this on stage, let's have you come and, you know, speak to this in front of a piano.

[30:21] And so he came and dropped me off and he was just so proud. He was just kind of like, that's my wife going in there, you know, speaking a story that's true for her that she worked on and workshopped and, you know, got really great praise for.

[30:36] And even though I wasn't picked to be on stage, I got really, really good feedback in the room.[30:41] And they were like, you know, it's just not quite fitting the theme of what we want for that night. But, you know, definitely this is a great story and it really resonates.

[30:49] And so having his encouragement,

[30:53] he can kind of see, like, this is something that I really want to do. This is something I'm really excited about and get a lot of fulfillment from,

[31:05] you know, outside of being a mom and wife and daughter and a sister.

[31:11] So that's been really, really great to have his support.

[31:16] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, yeah, no, that's, that's amazing.

[31:19] So then, okay, so after you had, you know, spent this time as a stay at home mom and then you, you know, started to pursue these other interests, these other passions and then eventually you made the decision to go back to work.

[31:31] Right.

[31:32] So what, what eventually led to that decision and then how did that transition go for you?

[31:38] Michelle Kivisto: Yeah, when my youngest was old enough for nursery school,[31:42] my aunt actually reached out to me and said,

[31:46] I'm going to start a deli business. Do you want to come and help me out during the day and make sandwiches? And I was just like,

[31:52] what about daycare? And she goes, oh, you know what? We've got a kitchen. Set her up with a little desk in the back and, you know, signed her up for nursery school, which was literally right across the street.

[32:01] And, you know, was able to walk her over. I worked a few hours.

[32:04] As soon as my shift was over, I picked her up and went home.

[32:08] And that continued for a couple of years until Covet hit and I decided I Would stay home with my kids for that.

[32:18] And it was right around the time too, that I started thinking about going back to work full time.

[32:25] You know, my youngest was going to be starting kindergarten and I was just kind of like, you know, it's kind of time.

[32:33] And then once Covid hit, I was like, oh, this works out perfectly that I don't have a job now. I'm not, you know, working from home except to take care of my kids and help them with their schoolwork.

[32:45] And, you know, that became a new routine to follow is, you know, wake up, get your assignments, get stuff done, get some free time in, get outside with the dog in the backyard, and then go back inside and, you know, make dinner and, you know, plan our weekly grocery trip and things like that.

[33:03] So a couple years later was when I heard from a friend that they knew of an opening for a marketing assistant. And I was like, oh, that's something I've kind of always wanted to do.

[33:19] I've always been really interested in marketing. It involved writing,

[33:23] it involved architectural engineering, construction, AEC industry.

[33:29] And considering my husband's also in that industry, I kind of knew some of the terms. And, you know, we would talk about some of his projects and, you know, how he would tackle them.

[33:38] And, you know, knowing some of his work colleagues, I would, you know, kind of be involved in that world. So I interviewed, I got the job,

[33:47] and it was part time. I was able to work while my kids were at school, which was a dream.

[33:53] And then recently I decided to go full time with that.

[33:58] So now I work full time while my kids are at School.

[34:01] They're 11 and 14 now,

[34:04] so able to drop one off at school on my way to work, which is wonderful. I get to talk to her in the mornings and have great conversations. And then they're there when I get home about an hour after they get off the bus.

[34:18] And it's fantastic.

[34:20] Christi Gmyr: Well, one of the things that I really love, you know, as we're having this conversation, is just sort of how you allowed your journey to kind of unfold and make different decisions and adjust to different things as life moved forward.

[34:35] Right as life happened. So you at first were working, you know, it was all about you and your husband, that newlywed stage. Eventually,

[34:42] you know, you started to have kids, you decided to be a stay at home mom, then you started to pursue these interests, then you decided to come back to work, you know, part time.

[34:51] Covid, of course, messed things up for everybody, but eventually, you know, transition into full time work and, you know, and I think that it's so important for the moms to be hearing this, because I think for a lot of moms, you know, it can be,

[35:07] you know, hard to. To or a lot of times we don't always think about the fact that we can make changes, and I think that can feel scary for a lot of people.

[35:18] But also knowing that if we make a change and then life happens and something else, you know, comes up or, you know, something else big happens in our lives,

[35:26] we can make changes again, Right? We can make changes that fit with what's going on in our lives, what are, you know, what our priorities are at that moment, what our values are and all of that.

[35:37] And it does not have to stay as one set thing. So I really love how you're sort of sharing about all these experiences.

[35:44] So what does,

[35:46] you know, what does success look like for you now? You know, how has that really changed for you over the years as you've moved through these different stages?

[35:56] Michelle Kivisto: Yeah, so when my kids were younger, it was all about the milestones, right? Are they walking on time? Are they talking on time? Are they being potty trained on time? Are they, you know, working with their peers?

[36:06] Are they.

[36:08] And my kids would always just go on their own timeline,

[36:12] and the pediatrician would just be like, well, are they meeting this? Are they doing this? Are they doing this? And they'd be meeting the minimum.

[36:19] But at the same time, I'm kind of like, they're on their own. They are still thriving.[36:24] You know, their growth,

[36:26] you know,

[36:27] line is still going up.

[36:29] They were, you know,

[36:31] particular eaters. I won't say picky, they're particular,

[36:35] but just being curious,

[36:39] just knowing, okay, what could be the reasons this is happening?

[36:44] We found out it was sensory issues and possibly aphrod going on.

[36:50] Fear of throwing up, fear of whatever I put in my mouth is going to come back up again. So I don't want to put anything in my mouth.

[36:56] We found a really great feeding therapist. They got into occupational therapy and speech therapy,

[37:03] which is also something I went through when I was younger.

[37:07] So that was a really interesting process to go through because it was kind of like, oh, I needed that, but my kids will never need that. They're so great. They're so wonderful.[37:17] They come from,

[37:18] you know, these really great parents, and we're gonna do the best for them, and they're gonna, you know, be the best in the world.

[37:25] And then you start doing the comparison and seeing other kids, you know, do so many sports and they're, you know, learning new languages and they're you know,

[37:36] thriving in different ways.

[37:38] And I realized that success for me is having happy kids,

[37:45] having a happy relationship with my husband and with my family and with my in laws and with my family, friends and other loved ones.

[37:55] It's just finding out what is that happiness for us and kind of like trying to chase that.

[38:01] For my husband and kids, it's traveling. We really, really love to travel.

[38:07] And so we got to take a couple of trips this year that just kind of.

[38:13] We didn't have to do a lot.

[38:15] It was just kind of like about us being together and. But also about like, mom's gonna go and sit on the deck and read a book for a while while the kids are, you know, in the pool swimming with dad and we're gonna go off and enjoy this nature hike and the kids just want to,

[38:33] you know, hang out in the souvenir shop while, you know, we go and do that. And that's okay. I mean, they're old enough that we can do that. Thank goodness.

[38:40] I wouldn't do that when they were 2 and 4,

[38:42] but when they were 2 and 4, we could push them in the strollers and they go where mom and dad go.

[38:49] So.

[38:49] Christi Gmyr: Absolutely.

[38:51] Michelle Kivisto: So if I'm a successful parent, I think it means just having kids who treat other humans with kindness and who are aware of what their feelings are and how they can affect the world,

[39:07] essentially.

[39:09] Christi Gmyr: Well, and when you talk to about, you know, happy, happy kids, you know, happy relationship, and you had talked about, you know, the comparison trap, right, which is something that unfortunately so many of us get caught up in, you know, and it sounds like, you know, when you realized,

[39:22] you know, success is about having happy kids, you know, having happy relationship,

[39:28] part of that is letting go of that comparison, right? Because happiness is going to look different for everybody. You know, our relationships are going to look different, our interests are going to look different.

[39:35] You know, what is going to help our kids be happy, you know, is not going to be exactly the same for every single person and every single family. So.

[39:46] So, yeah, no, that, that's great.

[39:48] So now if you could go back in time and talk to the version of you who was feeling, you know, lost in motherhood,

[39:55] what would you tell her?

[39:59] Michelle Kivisto: Um,

[40:00] you can't exactly say it's going to be okay because things are never truly okay. There's always going to be some curveball coming in your direction.

[40:08] But if I were to tell her anything, it would be speak up, ask for help.

[40:14] Ask for help a lot. If you don't find the answer from one Person,

[40:19] keep looking for it, Ask for second opinions, third opinions.

[40:24] Keep going until you find something that feels really, really right. If it means changing pediatricians, gynecologists,

[40:33] unfortunately, even your friend circle. If,

[40:36] you know, people become toxic.

[40:38] Christi Gmyr: Yeah.

[40:39] Michelle Kivisto: And seek for help, trying to go no. Or low contact with them, you know, for your own sanity, just speak up and ask. Ask, ask for help.

[40:50] Christi Gmyr: When, what about, what about the listeners? Right, so the people who are listening to this podcast, if you could leave them with one final message or one final piece of advice,

[40:59] what would it be? Would it be the same as what you just mentioned for yourself or would there be anything else?

[41:06] Michelle Kivisto: It would kind of be like the guiding principle in memoir writing and improv, which is trust your instincts.

[41:15] If something feels right, keep going in that direction.

[41:19] If something feels wrong or feels off,

[41:23] you don't have to keep pursuing it and,

[41:27] you know, second guessing why you feel that way,

[41:29] even if everyone else is kind of like, oh, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine, just keep doing it. If it feels wrong or off, then it's wrong or off for you.

[41:37] And you can get yourself out of that situation or stop pursuing that, or,

[41:42] you know,

[41:43] even if it's a relationship, you know, kind of take a step back and kind of listen to your instincts. Listen to what your body's telling you.

[41:50] Because when you're on stage and improv,

[41:53] following your instincts means kind of subconsciously looking at clues as to what someone is saying, but also what they are doing, how they're acting, how they're performing.

[42:03] And when it's memoir writing or just writing in general,

[42:08] usually get a prompt and you just go off in a direction and you just kind of follow wherever that writing takes you or that memoir writing, wherever that memory is,

[42:18] trust that what you're feeling is true for you. Even if someone else doubts what your memory is,

[42:25] if it's true for you, then it's true for you.

[42:27] So definitely trust your gut, trust your instincts. They can lead you in very good directions.

[42:34] Christi Gmyr: Well, and I love that you really emphasize for you, right. Because you're right, something that feels good for one person might not feel good for somebody else. Something that doesn't feel good for one person, you know, could for somebody else.

[42:44] And it's really, you know, for you. Right. And to your point, like, if something does not feel good for you,

[42:50] you can make other decisions, you can do things differently, you know, So I, I really love that you, that you talked about that.

[42:57] So thank you again. I just, you know, I know I was I thanked you at the beginning. What I want to thank you again just so much for taking the time to be here.

[43:05] I think that this is really great, you know, sharing your story, sharing your experiences. I know that there are a lot of moms out there who can really resonate with your story and can really benefit from, from hearing it just because it helps to,

[43:22] helps them to not feel so alone. It helps to, you know, validate, you know, their own experiences. And I just think this is really wonderful.

[43:29] Um, so I do, I very much appreciate it.

[43:32] And then as always, for the moms who are listening, you know, if you did find any of the things we talked about today to be valuable or helpful, I would just ask that you please share this podcast with other moms that might maybe could use some additional support because as always,

[43:47] we are all in this together.