EPS 34. A Single Mom at the Top: Leading Billion-Dollar Brands While Raising a Child Alone

In today's episode of Overcaffeinated and Out of Effs I'm joined by Gretchen de Castellane, a former corporate leader who spent more than 20 years leading creative teams at Mattel for billion-dollar brands like Barbie and Hot Wheels, all while raising her child as a single mom.

It was exciting, meaningful work but over time she poured so much of herself into the role that she lost sight of who she really was. Eventually, life gave her the nudge she didn't know she needed. The career chapter she thought would always define her suddenly came to a close. But that ending became the doorway to something new.

In this honest conversation we talk about:

• what burnout really looked like behind the scenes of a high-level corporate career

• the emotional toll of being the only parent while leading at work

• shifting beliefs about what it means to be a “good mom” and a “successful woman”

• unique challenges working moms face when they don't have a partner to share the load

• misconceptions and the things often misunderstood about being a single mom

• small changes that can make the biggest difference

• practical first steps to create, “a next act that truly fits who you are now”

  
  

For more than 20 years, Gretchen led creative teams at Mattel for billion-dollar brands like Hot Wheels and Barbie. What once felt exciting and meaningful eventually led to severe burnout, especially as she navigated single motherhood.

When the career chapter she thought would define her came to an unexpected close, she found herself rebuilding from the ground up. Through neuroscience, flow psychology, and spiritual practices, she became a certified High Flow Coach and now helps leaders and change-makers reignite their spark and create work and lives that feel aligned and sustainable.

Find Gretchen at:

Website: https://www.riteofpassagecoaching.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gretchendecastellane/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gretchendecastellane/

[00:04] Christi Gmyr: Welcome to Overcaffeinated and Out of Effs, the podcast for burned out, career-minded moms who are ready to stop pretending everything's fine and feel like themselves again.

[00:15] I'm your host, Christi Gmyr, burnout coach for moms, licensed therapist and mom of two. And I'm here to help you reclaim your energy, your identity, and your peace of mind.

[00:25] Whether you're lying awake thinking about the 87 things you didn't get done or silently resenting the people you love most,

[00:32] This is your space to feel seen, supported, and not so alone.

[00:36] So grab your coffee, hot, cold or day old, and let's get into it.

[00:47] Hey everybody, it's Christi.

[00:49] Welcome to Overcaffeinated and Out of Effs.

[00:53] In today's episode, I'd like to welcome our guest, Gretchen De Castellane.

[00:58] For more than 20 years, Gretchen led creative teams at Mattel for billion dollar brands like Hot Wheels and Barbie. It was exciting, meaningful work. But over time,

[01:09] she poured so much of herself into the role that she lost sight of who she really was.

[01:14] Eventually, she gave her like,

[01:17] excuse me, I'm stumbling over my words. Eventually, life gave her the nudge she didn't know she needed. The career chapter she thought would always define her suddenly came to a close.

[01:27] At first it was disorienting. When your identity has been tied to your work for decades, what comes next can feel like a big question mark.

[01:35] But that ending became the doorway to something new. She rebuilt herself from the ground up, diving into neuroscience, flow psychology and spiritual practices. And she became a certified high flow coach.

[01:48] Today, Gretchen helps leaders and change makers reignite their spark and step into work and life that feels aligned, impactful and sustainable.

[01:56] What she shares isn't theory, it's lived. Gretchen knows the weight of burnout. She knows the fear of uncertainty. And she knows that what feels like an ending can actually be the beginning of a more fulfilling chapter for the listeners who she wants to offer both hope and practical tools to navigate the transition,

[02:13] to trust their own spark again and to create a next act that truly fits who they are. Now,

[02:21] I've invited Gretchen here today to talk a little bit about, you know, her story and experiences with burnout as a single mom with such a demanding career.

[02:32] So,

[02:33] Gretchen, thank you so much for being here today.

[02:36] Gretchen De Castellane: Thank you for having me.

[02:39] Christi Gmyr: So you currently work as a certified high flow coach.

[02:44] However,

[02:45] you used to have a career at Mattel, correct? So you had led creative teams there, you said, for over two decades. So can you maybe just start off by telling us a little Bit about what life was like for you during that time while you were working, you know,[03:00] such a demanding job, and also raising your kids as a single mom.

[03:04] Gretchen De Castellane: Yeah.

[03:05] So I started when I was in my 20s, didn't have a kid, and,

[03:10] you know, there was. The sky was the limit in terms of my career, but also in terms of how I could spend my time. I, of course, had a lot more energy,

[03:20] had way fewer obligations,

[03:23] and was pretty much just focused on how could I climb the ladder and build a career and then started a family,

[03:33] which added a whole other dynamic.

[03:37] I was also.

[03:38] I had more responsibilities in my career in corporate,

[03:43] and I was in a space that was also kind of the wild frontier,

[03:50] because I was at that time running the digital creative side of Mattel. So it was a. It was a crazy time. And then things changed in my life and I became a single mom and my kid was three.

[04:05] And at the same exact time, because that's how life tends to operate,

[04:11] I was asked to take on even more responsibility and move over to the packaging side and to run package design for the world's number one selling toy,

[04:24] which is the Hot Wheels diecast car. All you mamas, you know those well?

[04:29] Christi Gmyr: Oh, yes. We have plenty of them in our basement.

[04:32] Gretchen De Castellane: Yep. There's tons of them.

[04:35] So that was really exciting.

[04:38] And in the beginning, that excitement, you know, I was at that moment, you know, that moment where you say yes to something and your brain doesn't do the math,

[04:47] but you're like, I'll figure it out. I'll just. I'll just figure it out and power my way through. Well, I did that for 10 years trying to figure it out and power my way through,[04:58] and was literally in burnout for 10 years straight because,

[05:04] you know, the. And then the pandemic happened during that 10 years. Right. So a lot of,

[05:11] like, things never stopped ramping up.

[05:15] And being a single mom never got less complicated as my kid was growing.

[05:22] It was like a spiral that was tightening and tightening.

[05:28] And so the. The tools that got me there, which was sheer will and determination, were not the tools that were creating anything that might look like work life balance.[05:40] And my epiphany at that time was, there's no such thing as work life balance. You guys all know that.

[05:48] Really more about work life harmony, which is treating life more like a dance where sometimes you're going to be more mom today and sometimes you're going to be more leader today,

[06:00] you know, et cetera.

[06:01] So that helped me realize, okay, I can't do this with Will and Determination alone.[06:08] I have to think differently about the way I'm showing up to all these areas of my life that literally want a hundred percent of me and don't want any other part of me to exist in that, when I'm in that arena.

[06:23] That was the first moment was just realizing, okay, balance is not possible.

[06:28] It's so let's suck that out the window,

[06:31] let's embrace the suck and realize, okay, it's actually gonna be more about harmony. It's gonna be a dance and to be okay with that. So the, you know, you, then you wrestle with the mom guilt and all of that stuff, but that's sort of an overview of what it was like,

[06:46] at least energetically during my tenure.

[06:50] Christi Gmyr: Well, and you know, and when you talk about,

[06:52] you know, work life, balance versus work life, harmony, I mean, one of the things, you know, that is so important that you're bringing up is this idea of defining things.

[07:04] Right. Because we all sort of define things differently. And the way we define things is ultimately going to affect the way we go after them and the way we try to achieve them.

[07:15] And a lot of, you know, a lot of the things that I know,

[07:20] you know, moms are thinking about, a lot of the things that we talk to moms about are this idea of being successful. Right. Like, what does that mean? And unfortunately,

[07:29] there's been a lot of societal conditioning that has sort of shaped that definition for a lot of moms.

[07:36] But I'm curious, you know,

[07:39] when you look back, what were some of the beliefs that you had at that time about that definition of success? Like what it meant to be a good mom and a successful career woman?

[07:50] Gretchen De Castellane: Yeah. So there were essentially three Personas that I was,[07:56] I was slipping into at any given moment. And I actually had an epiphany the other day, especially when I was at work. You know those Halloween blow up costumes of like the dinosaur?

[08:07] Christi Gmyr: Oh, yes.

[08:08] Gretchen De Castellane: So going to work, I would kind of step into one of those where I would project this Persona that was far bigger,[08:16] far more ferocity.[08:20] And I, I felt like success looked like I had to walk with grace, walk, walk with certainty and walk with power. And that literally meant I wore heels because I'm five two.

[08:31] So I wore heels to look a little taller. I made sure that I dressed in such a way where when I walked in the room, there was a presence that was projecting before me.[08:43] The conversation already started,

[08:46] so I was orchestrating a Persona that was like, I'm on it,

[08:51] I've got it,

[08:52] and step out of my way, you know, in the most loving way. I was still very loving and brought a lot of light, but that was the Persona I brought.

[09:00] And it was exhausting because that's,

[09:04] you know, I can do that, but I was sustaining that all day long.

[09:08] Then I would go pick up my kid at school and now I'm. I, I have to get out of the. The dino costume and put on something else, which had to look less like a single mom because for your single mommas out there,

[09:23] you know, we still are looked at with pity.

[09:27] We are very underserved and we carry a lot of shame.

[09:35] And so I had to walk onto the property, the school property,

[09:40] feeling and pretending confident and feel like I know exactly what's going on. I know exactly what to pack for lunch tomorrow. I know exactly what outfit needs to be ready,

[09:52] you know, and meanwhile, I've got all these, you know, PTA moms chasing me down for a form that I hadn't submitted. So I had to look like I was a good mom to the school and to the other parents.

[10:05] And then when I got home,

[10:07] I now exhausted and depleted,

[10:10] now I had to be the present mom who wasn't going to snap at my kid, you know, because it was just me and my kid. There wasn't another parent there to kind of pick up some energy for me or get dinner going.

[10:25] I mean, I had to navigate all of that. Still do,

[10:29] and, you know, find a way to reach deep down and find the playful version of myself. Like now I needed to be a playmate and,

[10:39] and then maybe at 1am when I had some me time,

[10:44] I could figure out who the heck I was, you know,

[10:48] so those were sort of the, the, the, the Personas that I was navigating between and feeling guilty every time I was in one of them that I wasn't enough for the other.[10:59] You know,

[11:01] constant not enoughness,

[11:03] constant.

[11:04] And,

[11:06] and feeling. Feeling like I'm putting on a, A mask.

[11:11] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, yeah. No, and I think a lot of the things that you were saying are very relatable to. I'm sure a lot of this resonates with most working moms, right? You know, all these things you talk about, the various roles, you know, the different Personas,

 the feelings of guilt, wanting to be in one place and also feeling guilty about not being in another.

[11:31] But with you, you know, you talk about this added layer of being a single parent, right? You talk about not having another person there to help pick up the energy.

[11:40] And I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit more about that. And just in terms of what are some of the challenges that you face that you felt were unique to your situation as a single parent?

[11:53] Gretchen De Castellane: Yeah, well, one of them is the. What's called invisible labor.

[11:59] Christi Gmyr: Labor.

[11:59] Gretchen De Castellane: Right.

[12:00] We all, all of us have a list that we're constantly running, right.

[12:06] What we can sometimes take for granted when we're a partnered mom. I know I did. Right. This was a surprise to me.

[12:13] I did not realize how.

[12:16] How much it helped to voice the list out loud to a partner and have a partner reflect back and say, well,

[12:23] and work through it together and kind of brainstorm. And I called it pillow talk because that was most often when you would kind of sort out the agenda. Right.

[12:33] You don't realize how much, even via text, you sort out with your partner.

[12:40] And when it becomes you, you're making all the decisions.

[12:44] So now it's on you. You're fully responsible and you have to remember everything.[12:50] And there is. You're always inventing a new system,

[12:54] a new post it system, a dry erase board, a thing on your phone.

[12:58] You're always hunting for the perfect system to help you remember what's in your brain. There's a. There's, I would say, a huge increase in invisible labor and cognitive load that happens with a single mom that I didn't experience when I was a partnered mom.[13:17] That was a massive, almost overnight difference. That,

[13:21] frankly, has never changed. It has not.

[13:24] You know, that has not changed. So just the sheer weight of the invisible labor that you're carrying alone is probably one of the biggest challenges. And it's hard.

[13:33] It's like someone who's living in chronic pain, right.

[13:37] Can't see it.

[13:39] It's invisible.

[13:40] And when you talk about it, people think that,

[13:45] you know,

[13:46] you can just make a list or you can just do this. And that's not the real burden. The real burden is the volume of what ifs and information and,

[13:58] you know, to dos that you are walking around carrying no matter how many checklists you have. So that was number one.

[14:07] Number two,

[14:08] just the level of fear, doubt and worry amplify like you're already. You already have a lot of it wired in as a moment. Right. And there's stuff as a mom that the dad might not experience.

[14:21] Right. So there's a little bit of that solitude, that isolation that already is happening.[14:27] But when you feel the isolation that comes with society isolating you. When I became a single mom,

[14:35] I lost friends because they just didn't get me anymore. You know,

[14:40] I lost friends because they were afraid. It was almost like they felt like being A single mom was. Was contagious.

[14:45] Right.

[14:46] So my network changed.

[14:49] So who I could relate to, who I could rely on completely became a wobbly ground,[14:57] and I had to rebuild all of that.

[15:00] So just being able, you know, having to experience sort of the heartache of that loss and very quickly have to recoup and fill in those gaps,

[15:12] you know, you don't have a lot of response time when you're a single mom because it's all on you. And that kid feels the pressure of the single parent.

[15:24] It feels different.

[15:25] They look at you different.

[15:26] Christi Gmyr: And I mean, it really sounds like, you know, essentially what you're saying, if I'm understanding right, is, you know, all of these pressures, all of this weight that so many of us are already experiencing, but then for a single mom, maybe it's taking it a step further.

[15:40] Right. Like, I'm listening to you talk and I'm thinking about, like, yes, I can certainly relate to this weight that's being carried around all the time,

[15:49] you know, managing 99% of the child care responsibilities and things like that. But at the end of the day, I also know that if there's something I really can't make it to, there's something I really,

[16:00] you know, that I really, really need help or support with,

[16:03] I can reach out to my husband and ask him to do it. And if, you know, and if he can, he will either do it for me or help me work out a solution.

[16:10] And that's something that maybe parents don't have. And I guess I never really thought about too, like, yes, I'll a lot of times sort of think through my day, think through my list, think through how I'm going to do everything.

[16:20] And I'm sort of making those decisions,

[16:23] but I still tell my husband about them. Not because I'm necessarily asking him to help me figure out the plan, but more just to. To give it a voice and just to have somebody else be on the receiving end of it almost to,

[16:35] you know, just sort of acknowledge, like, yes, this plan exists and this is how you're going to manage your day.

[16:42] So.

[16:43] So it sounds like a lot of those things, but again, like a step further.

[16:47] Gretchen De Castellane: Yeah. And.

[16:48] And knowing that you're the one creating all the certainty.

[16:52] So, you know, all those what if scenarios you run as a mom, Right. When you're a partnered mom and you have all these resources and maybe you're lucky enough to have your parents nearby that you can even rely on.

[17:03] Right.

[17:04] When you're a single mom,

[17:06] you're. You don't have those options,

[17:09] right? You, you're, you're,

[17:11] you're, and you're also being very mindful of who gets to be in your inner circle.[17:16] Because if you have to rely on somebody else, like, that feels vulnerable. There's a level of vulnerability that a single mom carries.

[17:26] And even if a single mom is listening right now,

[17:30] hearing just the word vulnerability is probably like her bat shield is starting to go up because you just, you can't, you almost feel like you can't afford to allow yourself to realize how vulnerable you feel at all,

[17:45] all times.

[17:47] Christi Gmyr: Well, and I'm wondering, you know, as you're talking and you're talking about,

[17:51] you know, about single moms and maybe what they are hearing, you know, what they might be experiencing as they're listening to you talk. And I'm curious, like, what about everybody else, the rest of society, like, what are some things that you wish more people understood about being a single parent that would maybe be helpful for those single parents out there to have this more general knowledge and understanding?

[18:15] Gretchen De Castellane: Yeah.

[18:17] You know, I think it's funny because,

[18:20] um, I, I think it would just be nice for people to respect being a single parent. You know,

[18:29] to,

[18:29] to really recognize like that is a massive challenge and undertaking and you're carrying a lot and to just respect it and regard it as, you know, a human that's, that's carrying maybe a little more than, than other people and just that doesn't make them more special.

[18:54] I'm not special at all.

[18:59] But, but maybe it's good to recognize, not from a pity standpoint, but just from a math standpoint, that maybe I'm carrying a little bit more and maybe there's different conversations and maybe, and it doesn't mean my dreams are any smaller.

[19:17] Like I still am a whole entire human being. I still have dreams.

[19:23] Maybe the timing is different, maybe the schedule of my dreams is a little different, more elongated.[19:29] Maybe my priority priorities look different. But I'm not special and I'm not some, I'm not contagious, you know,

[19:39] So I think sometimes people don't know how to talk to a single mom.

[19:44] One of the hardest things, one of the things that a lot of moms do that is hard for single moms is when a mom says, oh,

[19:54] I know what you mean. I'm practically a single mom in my relationship.

[20:00] And I understand the instinct. Like, I, I, I,

[20:04] I well intentioned that well intentioned. And I was there. You know, I was there. That's why I'm now a single mom.

[20:13] Um, I was there But I did not know. I knew nothing about being a single mom because even though my relationship didn't feel as strongly partnered as I had hoped,[20:26] I did at the end of the day, we both love my kid. And at the end of the day, I could still,

[20:32] you know,

[20:34] voice what I needed and count on,

[20:37] you know, four wheels to drive and pick the kid up and safely transport them to the next place. Place. And I didn't have to think through horror scenarios. So,

[20:48] you know, I think. I think people just to recognize that single mommy and. And also our systems are not set up at all for a single parent. It's almost.

[20:59] They're. They're the opposite. They. They almost make it impossible,

[21:05] nearly impossible to be a single parent. So, you know, I think just understanding there's 15 million of us in the United States, that's a real. That's just, that's. That's a real number.

[21:16] That's a real portion of our population,

[21:19] and we're carrying a lot. And a lot of us, you know, it's not by choice, you know, a lot of us ended up in this position.

[21:28] So I think some empathy, some respect and curiosity, you know. Yeah,

[21:36] curiosity would actually be a good place to start. Just humorous curiosity.

[21:42] Christi Gmyr: Honestly, I think that's a great place to start in so many situations. That's one of the things I always encouraging people to do is anytime you're not sure

 about something or you're not familiar is to.

[21:51] Is to approach it with curiosity. Because there's so much that we don't know. There's so much that we can learn about anybody's, you know, situation,

[21:59] you know, so I think that that is a great way to combat it.

[22:04] So then, okay, so then going back to, you know, your personal story and your personal experiences,

[22:09] you know,

[22:10] what were some of the early signs of burnout that you experienced? That maybe,[22:16] maybe you didn't see them at the time, maybe you ignored them, maybe you rationalized them,

[22:20] you know, what were some of those things?

[22:23] Gretchen De Castellane: Well,

[22:24] I'd say the habits, first and foremost, which will probably make you laugh a little bit, because I would. I would go to the coffee in the afternoon. I would be getting another coffee, not going for the water.

[22:39] So when.

[22:41] And I, I thought I was just take, you know,

[22:45] I didn't realize I was masking burnout. Early signs of burnout by going to the caffeine, like specifically to the coffee. I thought I was being healthy by not going to the cola, you know,

[22:59] so,

[23:00] you know, that was,

[23:01] it was in the habits, first and foremost,

[23:06] the Constant, just gotta get one more thing done.

[23:09] And people starting to say,

[23:12] why don't you slow down? Or,

[23:15] hey, you need to take a day off, right?

[23:19] When. When you start hearing people suggesting to you that you need to slow down and maybe do things differently,

[23:26] and you kind of want to laugh at them, you're like, stuff doesn't get done by itself.[23:31] Bonding that way, right? With this more almost aggressive,

[23:37] constant pull of energy, and you feel like you're pulling everything forward.

[23:42] I'd say that's an early sign that you are very much squarely pointing your toes directly to burnout. You are on that path in that group. You are heading there 100%.

[23:56] But if you can be conscious and just observe yourself, go for the coffee and listen, how many times are people suggesting you need to slow down, you need some time to yourself, and how much you're defending not doing that.

[24:14] If you can just observe that, that's the baby step, is just observe it, right?

[24:20] Then you're actually,

[24:23] like, starting to point your toes away from burnout is just by the power of observation. Just being curious, right? Starting with curiosity and just being curious about, okay, wait a minute,

[24:37] what's happening?

[24:38] I'm just gonna observe myself for the next couple weeks and see what's going on. But those.

[24:44] Christi Gmyr: Well,

[24:45] well. And the thing is, is, you know, sometimes when people make an observation or give us feedback,

[24:51] you know, the first time, it can be maybe a little bit easier to brush it aside, you know, whatever. But.

[24:58] But when you start hearing it from multiple people, when.

[25:02] Especially people who you trust, who you have strong relationships with, who, you know, care about you,

[25:07] you know, if you're hearing it from multiple different places, a lot of times, that can be a good time to take a step back. And not necessarily. You don't necessarily have to agree with them,

[25:16] but just to pay attention, like you said, to kind of pay attention and spend some time reflecting on it and seeing. Thinking about,

[25:23] you know, whether. Whether there is some truth to what.

[25:27] Gretchen De Castellane: They'Re saying,

[25:28] that's a brilliant point to add to.

[25:31] Not necessarily agree,

[25:33] but just evaluate. Just like,

[25:35] you know what? I'm gonna. I'm gonna go ahead and see for myself what's going on. I think that's a really big point.

[25:42] Christi Gmyr: Well, and you were talking about, you know, habits, Right? Specifically the coffee, but just for everybody, the habits. What about your personal life? Like, how did you see that burnout was showing up for you there?

[25:52] Gretchen De Castellane: Yeah,

[25:54] certainly I noticed in my inner world,

[26:00] my ability to manage my stress was almost out of control.

[26:07] Mm.

[26:08] I was.

[26:10] And and almost relying on an obsessive approach to managing things like we all know, like checking the email,

[26:22] constantly answering every notification.

[26:26] No boundaries, like literally no boundaries. Boundaries were completely shot.[26:32] If there was,

[26:33] you know, my waking hours,

[26:36] I was like, well, I gotta put my waking hours to moving things forward.

[26:41] So my inner world was stressed to the max. There was no stress management anymore, no deep breathing,

[26:50] no you know, self care of that nature.

[26:54] And I was defiant about it because I had this lie that it was temporary and that I could handle it.

[27:03] So I was believing that lie and really not paying attention to the patterns that were being created.

[27:09] And then at the same time my self worth was, was plummeting.

[27:14] So burned out I got the more stressed I got,

[27:19] the more depleted in my self worth I got.

[27:23] And then it got to a point where my attitude now started to become cynical. Like I wasn't shiny light as much. I had to work harder to manufacture that.

[27:34] Now I saw I was very much. I'm an optimist, I was born an optimist,

[27:39] but I was like the dark side of pessimism. I mean everything was horrible and I was, I was just anticipating worst case scenarios and then just completely depressed. Like it just really was like a nosedive,

[27:56] um,

[27:56] and, and managing that. And, and I would do things like I'd go on a retreat or I'd, you know,

[28:03] do a live event and you know, I'd feel lit up for,

[28:08] you know, a short period of time, but then re entry into my world and the way I was responding to it, activating all those old patterns, I would just plop right back into that dysregulation.

[28:24] The inner world was just total ****.

[28:28] Christi Gmyr: Well, so then how did you know,

[28:30] like when did you reach your breaking point? Like when did you realize, you know what, like I can't keep going on like this. Something has to change.

[28:39] Gretchen De Castellane: Yeah,

[28:40] I think,

[28:41] you know, I started to watch my performance dip. And as a single mom, that can't happen. You know, you're the,

[28:52] the source of income, there's nobody else.

[28:56] And my ability to rally was not there anymore. And that used to be a bottomless resource.

[29:05] That whole. I can figure it out,

[29:07] you know, rah rah was completely gone.

[29:11] So when I realized I didn't have the inner resources, much less the outer resources to, to,

[29:17] to get myself going, I, I knew I had to make a change. And, and that's when I started to.

[29:25] It wasn't just like, you know, I, I wanted a job change, to be completely honest,[29:31] but I, I was scared I was going to jump from one frying pan to another frying pan, you know, and at least I knew how to navigate this frying pan.

[29:42] Christi Gmyr: So.

[29:42] Gretchen De Castellane: So I started to look at different ways to manage my energy. And I was, I really got into that. That's when I started to look at flow state. Cuz I knew there had to be a different way.

[29:54] I knew there had to be a way for me to,

[29:57] you know, increase my productivity without burning, without, you know,

[30:03] doing more.

[30:04] You know, it was work smarter, not harder. But I knew that if I could play with flow state intentionally,

[30:12] then I might be onto something.

[30:14] And that was sort of the beginning.

[30:16] Looking at flow state, looking at the neuroscience, and really recognizing and admitting to myself I was in burnout. When I was in burnout. This was before the pandemic, before it was okay to talk about.

[30:28] And it's still not that okay,

[30:31] but at least people talk about it now.

[30:35] Talking about it back then,

[30:37] um,

[30:38] you had to show up with a fever back then, you know.

[30:41] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, yeah. No, live. Lot changed with COVID Absolutely.

[30:45] Gretchen De Castellane: Yeah.

[30:45] Christi Gmyr: Well, and so. And to your point, I mean,

[30:47] maybe in some.

[30:49] Not that Covid was a positive thing, but if we're looking for silver linings, maybe it opened up some conversations, maybe it, you know, allowed people a space to start talking about some of these things.

[31:00] Exactly.

[31:00] Gretchen De Castellane: Right.

[31:01] Christi Gmyr: You know,

[31:02] so, okay, so you ended up, you know, eventually leaving your job. And then as you mentioned, you. You are now a certified high flow coach. Yeah. Can you just talk a little bit?

[31:13] You know, for people who maybe don't really understand what that is, what that means.

[31:18] If you could just tell us a little bit about that. And how does that specifically apply to these burned out moms?

[31:24] Gretchen De Castellane: Yeah. So flow state is that experience you have, that state of consciousness where you lose track of time. Things kind of come easily. So if you're working on a project or even if you're walking in nature or you're playing with your kids and you're just in the zone.

[31:41] That's what a lot of people call it.

[31:43] And a lot of times we think that it happens accidentally or we don't really know how we fall into it. We just hope that if we do this activity, it'll happen.

[31:56] Well, there's more of a science behind it. There is a way to actually create the causes and conditions to unlock flow. We know a lot more about flow state and the neuroscience behind it now.

[32:09] So I got certified to help people adjust their lifestyles to allow more of that flow to come into play.

[32:19] So I work with my

 clients to Help them remember what is it that triggers their flow,

[32:26] what are those circumstances? And then also help them design high productive days where they can literally design a day, I call it a turbo day, where you get basically a month's worth of work done in one day.

[32:43] And there is a way to do it.

[32:45] It's, you have to, you, you have to almost approach it scientifically and, and you have to be careful because your brain, you know, you use a lot of your brain power when doing that.

[32:55] So you do need to recover.

[32:57] Recovery is just as important to flow state as being in flow state and recovery. When I discovered that recovery could actually increase productivity,

[33:12] to me that was the hook into burnout recovery.

[33:17] And I thought, okay,

[33:18] well maybe recovery's okay because all these high performing athletes and entrepreneurs and people around the world talk about how necessary recovery is to their flow state,

[33:37] to their business, to their performance.

[33:40] So that was the hook for me was to make recovery okay, to make recovery a benefit to my performance.

[33:50] That was actually the hook that pulled me into the world of flow.

[33:55] So what's funny is my, my clients coming, come to me thinking they're increasing their performance,

[34:00] getting more productive, maybe going through transition.

[34:04] What they're really doing because most of them are burned out or burning out is they're, they're learning to make recovery a lifestyle and become, and also coming more into alignment with the truth of who you are because you can't fake flow state.

[34:21] So you have to identify aligned activities that actually activate flow.

[34:27] So that's sort of how I got hooked into it was through the door of pro, of recovery, being more productive.

[34:35] Christi Gmyr: Well, and you said that you've, you know, that you help people create a next act that truly fits who they are now. Right. And you're talking about,

[34:44] you know,

[34:45] doing a month's worth of things in one day and you're talking about,

[34:49] you know, recovery and the benefits of all of that.

[34:52] And I'm wondering, you know, well, I'm actually wondering a few things about this. So for starters, for you, you may, you did end up making a major career change.

[35:01] And I know, you know, for so many working moms, career, you know, it's such an important part of their identity.

[35:07] And I know that there are a lot of people who,

[35:10] obviously not everybody's going to change their careers, but there are a lot of people who maybe would like to explore that. But they're also worried about,

[35:18] you know, losing their identity or you know,

[35:22] things like, you know, dealing with the struggles of that. And I'm curious, like,[35:26] what happened for you like, how did you navigate that emotional piece, you know, tied to your identity of making such a big career change?

[35:36] Gretchen De Castellane: Oh, yeah.

[35:37] So, you know, what you're talking about is what I call the modern golden handcuffs and a pattern I've identified, and I'm sure there's more. But what I've identified in, in my clients is that there's three types of golden handcuffs.

[35:52] There's the traditional financial ones, but there's also identity, like you've mentioned, and then there's also purpose. Right. Those are three handcuffs that keep us attached to the job.

[36:06] Right.

[36:08] What I've learned in working with my clients and also working with myself is that it always comes back to alignment.

[36:17] First you have to have the courage. Don't. Before you think about leaving the job,[36:21] before you think about anything,

[36:24] you have to kind of remember who you are and just come back to alignment. And that alignment can start with things as simple as just breathing and letting yourself stare at a wall for two minutes.

[36:37] Right? Like, it's not, it doesn't have to be these big, giant, you know,

[36:42] workbooks and chasms of change.

[36:46] It really can start. Start with just being present and just noticing what's going on, right?

[36:54] And then noticing, if you have a moment on a Saturday in your car that you feel lighter,

[37:01] just noticing what was it that allowed that space to create that? And the more you cultivate that experience of being aligned, when things feel a little easier,

[37:16] a little lighter,

[37:17] and just naming it, like,

[37:20] what that is. Oh, I, I,

[37:23] I feel I actually got to. I, I owned my schedule today, so I feel free because Saturday.

[37:31] But it's my Saturday I design.

[37:34] Okay, so that tells you something. Maybe you want to own your schedule outright. Doesn't mean you'll be less busy. I work more hours now than I did in corporate,[37:44] but they're my hours,

[37:45] right? It's my calendar,

[37:48] so that's a freedom for me.

[37:50] So. And then you just start to get honest, like, oh, I, I had identity handcuffs to being, you know,

[37:58] it was pretty cool to be a single mom,

[38:00] you know, running Hot Wheels. Package design. That was pretty dope, you know,[38:06] pretty awesome. A lot of people were, like, really stoked on that.

[38:10] Um, but eventually it became not enough. You know, it just wasn't true to me anymore,

[38:17] and I had to start saying yes to my true self.

[38:21] Now I've had clients who were in a position, they thought they were going to quit. They were like, I can't do this anymore. My boss is horrible,

[38:30] and this is impossible. And all of those things I've had moms say that.

[38:35] And then we go through the alignment exercises and they start to reclaim,[38:40] you know, a remembrance of who they are and they realize, actually, I don't need to leave my job. I actually need to show up more authentic,

[38:50] better boundaries.

[38:51] Christi Gmyr: Yeah.

[38:52] Gretchen De Castellane: Assuming my boss is reacting this way because of me, what if I brought curiosity to my one on one with my boss? That might, that could change the whole conversation. So it doesn't always mean you're quitting.

[39:06] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.

[39:08] Gretchen De Castellane: Yeah. But it just means you're quitting pretending to be someone you're not, you know, And I think what happens is we all, we've all been told you have to be a certain way to succeed.

[39:20] And when you can kind of drop that and be yourself and show up from that perspective, it changes literally the game you're looking at.

[39:30] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, no, absolutely.

[39:32] And also to your point, you know, it's not going to be the same for everybody. Right. So some people, it might be quitting. Right. But, but also maybe not for others.[39:40] Right, yeah.

[39:41] So it sounds like really what you help people with is sort of identifying where that alignment is, how they can show up more authentically,

[39:50] what are the ways that they can live their lives, you know, in a way that's truly owned.

[39:57] What's, what's important to them, you know,

[39:59] aside from, you know, which very well may be different than their friend or their neighbor or somebody else who is also struggling with burnout. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.[40:08] Well, so I'm wondering, you know, so for people who want to learn more about you, they want to understand more about flow states and the work that you do, where can they go to do that?

[40:18] Gretchen De Castellane: Yeah, so you can find me on LinkedIn.

[40:22] So if you look up my full name, Gretchen De Castellane, you'll find me on LinkedIn.[40:27] Um, I have a newsletter there where I, I address a lot of these things head on and I do Wisdom Wednesday videos there where I'm dropping like just little one minute hot takes on something you can implement now.

[40:42] And all my posts are really about what can you implement now. Right. And really trying to consider,

[40:49] okay, it's my, like I posted this morning, it's a Monday. Right. And just saying, oh my gosh, you're probably having the Monday scaries. Like, here's something to help you get through,

[40:59] you know, the day. So really that's a good place where I share a lot of tips, a lot of education,

[41:06] but inspiration and just acknowledging like, what are we all going through?

[41:11] And then my website, which is rightofpassagecoaching.com that's where you know you can learn more about flow state.[41:21] What it, what it look, what does a high flow coach do?

[41:25] I talk about that as well,

[41:27] so you can learn more about. Whatever offers I have at that time will be there.[41:32] Christi Gmyr: Okay, great. So I will make sure to include all of that in the show notes for anybody who wants to learn more about that.

[41:42] And so before we kind of wrap up for today, you know, I know we've been talking about a lot of things. I feel like. I feel like we could talk about a lot more.[41:50] But what do you feel like?

[41:52] What's maybe one final piece of advice, one final message that you have for the moms who are listening today.

[41:59] Gretchen De Castellane: Oh, my gosh. Okay, so I'm going to take a page from Dr. Shefali.

[42:04] She wrote this book, the Parenting Map, which is amazing.

[42:09] And I got this book when I knew I needed to shift my relationship with my kid.[42:15] And one of the pieces of advice she offered that I embody and use with my kid is that we shouldn't necessarily want our kids to be happy. We're not bad people.

[42:27] That we want our kids to be happy.

[42:29] What we should really aim for is for them to be their true self. And when I made that shift,

[42:36] it changed my relationship with my child almost overnight.

[42:41] And what was interesting is that it also forced me to be more authentic. And I think

 we all know the best,

[42:50] quickest, most efficient tool to teach our kids is to role model the way.

[42:54] So really, it's about being authentic and being true to yourself and being imperfect out loud. Like literally laughing imperfection and doing it your kids.

[43:06] I think that that's really empowering and it makes them feel okay.[43:11] So that would be my piece of advice.

[43:15] Christi Gmyr: No, thank you. And absolutely. And that is. That is great advice, you know, and I appreciate you sharing that, you know, because to your point, I mean, yes, being authentic, modeling what we want to teach our kids, not only are those things good for us,

[43:29] but it helps them learn that it's okay for them to. To do those same things and live their lives in those same ways. So I really appreciate you saying that.

[43:37] Yeah.

[43:38] So, well, thank you again so much for being here. You know, I really appreciate you taking the time.

[43:43] And as always, for the moms who are listening, if any of this resonates, if you found any of it to any of the things we talked about today to be helpful or valuable, you know, please feel free to look Gretchen up again.

[43:55] I will include all her information in the show notes. And please share this podcast with any other moms you know that could maybe use some additional support because as always, we are all in this together.

[44:07] Gretchen De Castellane: Yes. Thank you.