EPS 45. You Were Never Meant to Do This Alone: A Doula's Perspective on Birth, Burnout and Letting Go

“You can do anything but you can't do everything.”

This powerful phrase is a reality that so many high-achieving moms are faced with the moment their first baby is born. It is one they know deep down yet struggle to live by.

In today's episode of Overcaffeinated and Out of Effs I sit down with doula, business owner and mom of two, Suzzie Vehrs, to talk about the connection between birth, identity, ambition and burnout and the reality so many moms grapple with: ”I can't do this the way I was supposed to.”

Suzzie shares how her own childbirth experience opened her eyes to just how much emotional and physical support women truly need, and how often they don't receive it.

Together we talk about:

• How birth is not just a medical event but an emotional and identity shift

• The unrealistic expectations placed on modern day mothers from day one

• Why strong doesn't mean the same thing as supported

• How burnout can quietly grow when we override our capacity

• Relearning to trust yourself in motherhood and beyond

This episode is your reminder that you were never meant to do this alone.

About Suzzie:

Suzzie Vehrs is a doula, business owner, and mom of two whose work is rooted in empathy, advocacy, and calm reassurance. After her own eye-opening birth experience, she felt called to support families during one of life’s most powerful transitions. Today, she helps women trust their instincts, navigate medical systems with confidence, and feel emotionally supported as they step into motherhood.

Her mission is simple but powerful: to remind families that birth is not just a medical event — it’s a deeply human and emotional journey.

Find Suzzie at:

IG: @shebirthsbravely

www.shebirthsbravely.com

[00:04] Christi Gmyr: Welcome to Overcaffeinated and Out of Effs, the podcast for burned out, career-minded moms who are ready to stop pretending everything's fine and feel like themselves again.

[00:15] I'm your host, Christi Gmyr, burnout coach for moms, licensed therapist and mom of two. And I'm here to help you reclaim your energy, your identity, and your peace of mind.

[00:25] Whether you're lying awake thinking about the 87 things you didn't get done or silently resenting the people you love most,

[00:32] This is your space to feel seen, supported, and not so alone.[00:36] So grab your coffee, hot, cold or day old, and let's get into it.

[00:48] Hey everybody, it's Christi.

[00:50] Welcome to Overcaffeinated and Out of Effs.

[00:53] In today's episode, I'd like to welcome our guest, Suzzie Vehrs

.[00:58] Suzzie's journey into birth work began with a deep calling to support women during one of life's most powerful and vulnerable moments.

[01:06] Birth.

[01:07] Her passion grew after witnessing how compassionate care and informed choices can completely transform a family's birth experience.

[01:15] After her own eye opening experience with childbirth, one that left her both amazed and aware of how much families need emotional and physical support,

[01:24] Suzzie decided to become a doula.

[01:27] She trained extensively in birth and postpartum support, determined to ensure that no parent ever feels alone, unheard or disempowered during their transition into parenthood.

[01:38] Today, Suzzie serves as a grounding presence in the birth space,

[01:42] helping families trust their instincts, navigate medical systems with confidence,[01:46] and embrace the profound beauty of their own strength.

[01:50] Whether she's guiding first time parents or supporting someone healing from a previous birth trauma,

[01:56] Suzzie's approach is rooted in empathy, advocacy and calm reassurance.

[02:01] Her mission is simple but powerful. To remind families that birth is not just a medical event, it's a human, emotional and spiritual journey.

[02:11] So I have invited Suzzie here today to share a bit about her own story. You know, as a mom, as a doula, and a business owner.

[02:21] And also we're just going to have a conversation, we're going to talk a little bit about this idea that you can do anything, but you can't do everything.

[02:29] So, Suzzie, thank you so much for being here today.

[02:33] Suzzie Vehrs: Thank you so much for having me. That was such a beautiful intro. I really appreciate that.

[02:39] Christi Gmyr: Yes, of course. Well, and I'm wondering, you know, if you wouldn't mind just starting, starting off by telling us, you know, a little bit more about yourself, your journey into motherhood and, you know, really how that shaped the work that you do today.

[02:52] Suzzie Vehrs: Yeah, well, I started my,

[02:55] my Life. I studied economics and I started my career in finance.

[03:00] When I had my first daughter, I had this kind of a, a challenging question almost every woman has to answer. Am I going to stay home or am I going to go back to work?[03:10] And at the time I chose to stay home because I couldn't. I. Well one, I didn't want to do like that 50, 60 hours, demanding career. But also we were moving for my then husband's job.

[03:22] And so it was this beautiful window that made sense, like, let's try staying home. Turned out I did not love staying home.

[03:29] And so I, I nannied a little bit. I tried to find jobs that I could do pseudo staying home.

[03:37] Um, and then eventually after I had my second daughter, I just had the best birth experience with her and my doula and my midwife made such an impact on me.

[03:45] I was like, okay, this is what I need to spend the rest of my life doing it.

[03:49] I felt this really strong pull, almost like a call into the birth work. And so when Hazel was about six months, I went and did my certification to become a doula and I started doing that shortly thereafter.

[04:02] I became,

[04:03] um, I also pursued a divorce and then became like a breadwinner for my family, which took a whole different level of responsibility.

[04:12] Um,

[04:13] and so I like for me, myself, I feel like I felt all the emotions of like,

[04:21] you know, that difficult decision, do I return to work or not,

[04:25] How. And then working, you know, taking on probably too much in that era of both, in the era when I tried to make jobs work with motherhood that were like,

[04:37] you know, like nannying is a real job,

[04:39] but also so is parenting. And I feel like it was a like crazy, wild thing to think, oh, you can just do simple, like you're a stay at home parent and not give yourself credit for it.[04:49] All that work you're doing and then like stepping into running a business and having this really centered soul, fulfilling work, but also is very time consuming. So. So that's my journey into motherhood work.

[05:03] These many moments of burnout and, and renewal in that process.

[05:08] Christi Gmyr: Yes, yes. And I love the point that you make too. Just this idea that, you know, it's not, this is not a black and white thing. When we're talking about, you know, working parents, working moms, I mean really all moms are working moms.

[05:19] Like we know this whether whether you're working at home or working outside of the home. And there's just a whole continuum of, you know, like everywhere in between the extremes of what that can look like,

[05:31] but you talk. You mentioned, you know, once you became a doula, when you did start to go to work outside of the home, you know, you started to have these kinds of experiences where it just, you know, at times it was too much.

[05:43] And so I'm wondering if you could just tell us a little bit about.

[05:46] About that. Like, how did things really kind of change for you in that sense once you did start to.

[05:53] To go back to work outside?

[05:55] Suzzie Vehrs: Yeah, I mean, at that point in my life,

[05:58] because.

[05:59] Because my divorce came so soon after,

[06:04] there was also this huge responsibility of,

[06:07] like, I had to pay bills, right? Like, I had rent to pay. I had to pay for food. I had to pay business expenses. I had to pay for childcare.

[06:16] And I think that is,

[06:18] you know, a reality that every mom is facing is, like,

[06:21] I remember at some points when I, you know, like, you. When you. When you start a new job, it's not like you are automatically successful. And I certainly wasn't. Like, when I would try to find clients, it was really hard, and there was a lot of rejection.

[06:36] At that same time was kind of like, we entered the COVID era, where a lot of people had, you know, if you were exposed, you had to quarantine for a long time.[06:48] So I was hungry for experience, and there were a lot of doulas that had contracts that they couldn't fill, and I was like, hands up. I'll go for you.

[06:56] Um, and so I did a lot of backup work, but at that time, I would maybe get paid, like, 35, $40 an hour to be, you know, this backup. But then I turn around and have to pay my babies that are, like, $25 an hour.

[07:10] I remember thinking, like, okay, like, this is not the salary I'm used to,

[07:15] but it was worth it to build the business that I wanted.[07:18] Um, and so sometimes in that, I just. It was just a matter of powering through. Sometimes I spent a lot of time in meditation, a lot of time in stillness, a lot of time in, like, building that.

[07:30] That faith that this is all going to be worth it. Because a lot of times the numbers did not work out,

[07:36] but I had faith that if I continued on the path, they would work out.

[07:39] Um, and I had to. Like, to me, it was like, I had to build that strategy of how,

[07:46] you know, it's. It's clearly not working right now,

[07:49] but how is it going to work out in the next year, the next two years, the next three years?

[07:53] And really, like, in those moments of doubt and those moments of, like, I don't think I can do this again. And that time when you're, like, crying in the car and then coming back and, like,

[08:04] getting calm with the breath, thinking about the vision, thinking about the future, reconnecting to the purpose and the mission and the.

[08:13] What, you know, the. The dreams I had for myself, for my girls, for the families I worked with, and it worked out. So.

[08:19] Christi Gmyr: Yeah. What? That's wonderful.

[08:22] Well, and it sounds like, you know, you really just had this mentality of,

[08:27] you know, you had the expectation that it's hard at the beginning, and you trusted that it was going to get better, and you trusted that it was going to be easier.

[08:34] And even though it was difficult,

[08:37] you also knew that it was temporary and that as long as you kept working towards it, it would eventually get better.

[08:46] Um, and so you said you just kind of, like, powered through until you. Until you really got to that point.

[08:51] Um,

[08:53] and it sounds like. And it sounds like since then, things have been very different for you. You know, I'm wondering, like, as a mom and a business owner, like, what does life look for you now today?

[09:05] Suzzie Vehrs: Oh, my God. Every day is so different in my life because I have.[09:11] I work with moms from before their birth. We're, like, prepping for their birth. I attend their birth with them, which can be anywhere from,

[09:19] you know, 15 hours to the longest birth I attended this this year was, like, started on Monday and ended on Friday. And I was, oh, my God, in and out for the.

[09:30] You know, but I probably spent over 50 hours with them totally.

[09:34] Um, and then I do.

[09:36] Right now, I do about 24 hours of care postpartum, not continuously. It's four hour shifts, six visits anytime in the first six months.

[09:45] Um, some families use that right at the beginning. Some families use it when they go back to work themselves,

[09:50] helping families set up their systems and figure out how to work together. And,[09:54] like, honestly, just like,

[09:56] having a baby is so exhausting. Mothers deserves.

[09:59] So sometimes it's like,[10:02] you know, they've been up all night and with a fussy baby or baby that just like, the reality is babies have to eat at night, and they like to wake up at night and eat.

[10:10] And so you have to catch up on your sleep. So sometimes that means, like,

[10:14] you

 know, you hand me the baby in the morning and you go sleep for four hours. And I take care of everything around the house. And,

[10:21] you know, me and the baby meal prep and we go for a walk and we take the dog out and we do some of those things that take the. The.

[10:28] To dos off a mother's. Plate so she can.

[10:32] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that sounds. That sounds amazing, you know, because I think about to your point, like, how challenging it is for new moms. And you're absolutely right. I mean, it's just babies don't have the greatest.

[10:46] Don't have the greatest sleep. You know, it is so broken. And they do have to eat. And they're not. They're just being babies. They're just being newborn. You know, it's like normal, but.

[10:55] Yes, but it's cool. That doesn't mean that it's not really, really hard. So that's amaz that you are able to help them with that and offer, you know, offer that support.

[11:06] So I wanted to talk, like, talk to you a little bit about, you know, you had brought to me that you were hoping that we could chat about this idea of you can do anything, but you can't do everything.

[11:15] And that is something that I often say to people as well. I imagine you also find yourself saying that a lot.

[11:24] And I'm sure when people hear that, you know, they have their own idea of what that maybe means, what that maybe looks like. But I'm curious, you know, how do.

[11:33] How do you explain it to people? Like, what does that idea of you can do anything,[11:38] but you can't do everything? Like, what does that mean and look like to you?

[11:41] Suzzie Vehrs: Yeah, well, I think a lot of moms have expectations to do everything perfectly at home and then do everything perfectly in their career as if they didn't have a baby. You work as if you didn't have a family, and you family as if you didn't have a job.[11:56] And do you kind of hold both those expectations of yourself?

[12:01] Right? Like, you expect that as one person you can do it all?

[12:07] You know, my.

[12:08] My daughter is a competitive gymnast.

[12:12] She's kind of wrapping up her last season. She's kind of done with it, but she went to nationals a couple years ago. It was so exciting for a while. It was like this thing that lit her up.

[12:21] And we read the Jordan Childs books together,

[12:24] and Jordan Childs says in this book, this thing that, like, really stuck with me, that as women, we're expected to do hard things and make it look easy. And if we don't make it look easy, we didn't do the hard thing good enough.

[12:35] And I think that is, like, so true in motherhood, too, where,

[12:40] like, we're doing such hard things. It's okay to acknowledge, like, hey, this is hard, and we're not supposed to do it all on our own. Like, that is not the, the ultimate design of this whole thing.

[12:51] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, no, absolutely. That's a really interesting, you know, way to talk about it. Because, yes, I do think that a lot of moms do feel this immense pressure to, not just to do all the things, but to make it look a certain way.

[13:06] Right. And that's interesting that you're saying that. You know, if, if it doesn't look easy like, like that word easy. I mean

[13:13] is anything really easy?

[13:15] You know, I don't know.

[13:17] You know, and so I'm curious, like,

[13:20] again, this phrase, you know, this saying, it, it sounds simple and it sounds pretty straightforward. But what are your thoughts about, you know, why moms have a. Such a hard time actually living by it?

[13:32] Suzzie Vehrs: Yeah,

[13:33] well, if you've been like a corporate girly.

[13:36] I love corporate girlies. I was a corporate girly at one point.

[13:39] Your worth is measured on your productivity, right? And parenting is not like that. Like,

[13:45] um, imagine like a napped, trapped mom, you know, you have this newborn that will only sleep if they're on your chest.

[13:51] Well, you decide to let them sleep on your chest and you feel like you're doing nothing.

[13:55] But a baby who gets two hours of skin to skin every day throughout the first month, their brain at one month is like gigantic. And their learning capacity, even five years later when they're going to kindergarten, that still has an impact.

[14:11] But nobody is walking around saying like, hey, nap trap mom, you're doing so great. Let's bring you some sushi and celebrate what you're doing. And here's your award and your bonus and all these things, right?

[14:22] Because we. It is the epitome of not looking productive when you are doing something incredibly productive.

[14:28] And I think because we're so conditioned to look for those outside rewards to.[14:35] Again, like,

[14:36] I think a lot of it comes back to,

[14:39] to a lot of the new moms I work with. And I went through this too, so it's not, it's just a reality is that so often we're performing instead of,

[14:52] you know, instead of something coming from within,

[14:55] you know, And I think that in motherhood, when all of a sudden we have,

[15:00] we. We take on this new identity and we take on this new set of expectations and we're trying to keep our old identity and we're trying to keep our old expectations that it becomes like you have to choose which ones you want to do and you can get help for the things that you aren't going to put on your plate.

[15:16] Because there are a lot of balls that cannot drop with all the responsibility that I know most working moms fold, because you do hold that responsibility in both places. And it's a tricky thing trying to figure out which things you can safely hand off and which things are okay to hand off and which things,

[15:31] like you yourself have to do. And I think that brings a lot of people to. I know. It brought me to, like,

[15:37] you know, so many days of tears trying to work through this.

[15:40] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, but. Yeah,

[15:43] yeah, no, absolutely. Well, and then I'm wondering, Susan, in your experience, you know, supporting these families, where do you see moms a lot of times, putting, you know, unrealistic pressure on themselves during pregnancy, you know, during the postpartum period, you know, and beyond?

[16:00] Suzzie Vehrs: Yeah,

[16:01] yeah. Well, I think it depends. Like, you know, I live in Seattle, so we're like, a really big city. We're very diverse. We have a lot of different cultures.

[16:10] Culturally, there are a lot of,

[16:14] like, pretty much any.

[16:15] Any Eastern culture has the philosophy that a mom should have a period of 30 days where she's resting and, like, literally, the family does everything for her. Like, her job is to bond with her baby and connect and figure out feeding.

[16:31] But, like,

[16:33] the meals, the cooking, the cleaning, the household duties, like, a mom is not supposed to even think about that kind of stuff.

[16:40] I think in the.

[16:41] The more Western families that,

[16:48] you know, the expectation is, day one, you got home and your. Your house is clean,[16:53] your dog is. You know, you're the one walking the dog. You're the one cooking the food.

[16:58] The idea that you need to have a period of rest and recovery is a lot harder.

[17:03] And I even get it sometimes from mothers. Like,

[17:06] I have a family yesterday that I was going to do a postpartum shift, and I sent my little confirmation, like, hey, I'm heading your way soon. Do you need to pick anything up on the way?

[17:15] Yada, yada, yada. And she texted back, and she was like, oh, my God, the baby was so fussy last night. I feel so bad because my house is a mess and I can't have you over.[17:24] And I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait. No, no, no, no. This is what a postpartum doula does. Like, you're describing my job description. Your job is to hand a fussy baby over to.[17:33] Like, you were up literally all night and sleep is this fundamental need,

[17:37] it's okay for you to go take a rest and for things to be messy and for someone else to be the one to unmessify it for you for a day like, that is okay.

[17:46] And I don't think that's like. It doesn't come naturally to people who.

[17:51] To. To those of us. I was definitely in that category for a long time. Who feel like our worth is defined by having it all together.

[17:59] Christi Gmyr: Yes.

[18:00] Yeah. No. And to your point, there can often be this expectation to just to bounce back, you know, I mean, I feel like we see that even just with our maternity leaves and the fact that for so many people, they're really very short, you know, in our country.

[18:16] Suzzie Vehrs: Yes, maybe.

[18:17] Christi Gmyr: Maybe you got 12 weeks. I mean, I know that's the number that I think a lot of people sort of talk about, but realistically, a lot of people get less than that.

[18:24] Even the people who get more than that don't necessarily get a lot more than that, you know, and so, yeah, just this expectation.

[18:33] And I do agree with you that I think a lot of this is conditioning. I think a lot of this is what we are observing, what we're seeing, what we're learning.

[18:45] You know, social media, you see celebrities and whatnot after having babies looking so amazing. And it just. It sets these, like, really unrealistic expectations for a lot of people.

[18:56] And so, you know, I'm wondering, like, this expectation to, you know, bounce back,[19:02] how do you personally see this affecting new moms?

[19:06] Suzzie Vehrs: Well, I think that we. When you talk about the social media, I think that we are comparing ourselves to people who have an immense amount of support and who don't talk about the support.

[19:16] For example, here in Seattle,

[19:19] a lot of families have incredible fertility benefits. Like some of the companies here.[19:26] When you have a baby, you

 can have in home care every single day for six weeks,

[19:32] meaning you can have somebody come sometimes up to 12 hours a day in your home to be there to help take care of whatever,

[19:40] you know, that's very different than somebody who is like three weeks and back to work, you know.

[19:47] So, like, one, if you don't have a baby yet and you're thinking about a baby, look at your company's fertility benefits. And if they're not good, go get a job at a company that has really good fertility benefits.

[19:57] Like, if you have the time, like, choose to work at a company that has that because,[20:04] you know, like, if you can spend $20,000 of someone else's money having in home support every single day. I'm not the right doula for that because I don't do, like, daily support, but there are doulas who do, right,

[20:16] like, choose that in your path if you can pre. Pre plan it.

[20:20] And then if you are home and you're like, wow, my house is a mess. Like,

[20:25] these routines are hard to set up. I'm struggling figuring it out. And then you're scrolling social media and you see someone all glam and pretty and like,

[20:34] you know what, they probably have someone doing everything for them and that's okay because it is their job to be glam and pretty and to show up with that energy and.

[20:45] But remember, that's their job and they're not doing everything else.

[20:49] Yeah, they might.

[20:50] Christi Gmyr: Yeah,

[20:51] well, I was gonna say. Yeah. And they don't just wake up and appear on camera like that either. Like, there's a lot of effort that goes into presenting themselves like that.[21:00] And to your point,

[21:01] we only have, you know, so much time, so much energy, so much, you know,[21:06] space to really be able to take care of any of the things we're going to take care of. So if we're investing our time and energy into making ourselves look a certain way, to present ourselves a certain way, then yeah, then it sort of raises the question of what other help and support are they getting for the other things that need to be done.

[21:25] Suzzie Vehrs: Yeah. And it, it also raises the question, like, when you're thinking about your own life, like, what are your priorities? Like, if you feel better when your house is clean, how can that get done?

[21:35] Like, does that mean that,

[21:36] that you're going to do it or does that mean that someone else is going to do it? And if you are the one doing it,

[21:41] then what are you giving up for that? Right. Like self, self care is essential. Is that sleep you're giving up? Is that a nutritious meal you're giving up? Is it money and time because you're not working that you're giving up?

[21:55] And based on that, you might come up with a different solution than you doing it, or you might have different conversations with your partner about whose responsibilities, like, how are we splitting this workload?

[22:07] Because I think that because I work with a lot of families,

[22:13] like women carry a lot of the mental load. But I also think that part of that is that we're not willing to give it up,

[22:20] that,

[22:20] you know, we're not willing for things to be done differently. And it's true, if you are with a person that will not do their part, that needs to be addressed too.[22:30] But if it's like a self inward, like my expectations are here because I have set these unrealistic expectations, then like,

[22:39] that's a problem that you can work out. And you know, like, my therapist helped me so much with that.

[22:44] Like, I would just so highly recommend Like, I'm not saying, like.

[22:48] Like, that's a you problem. I'm not saying it like that, but I am saying that, like, if you go to a therapist to get help and understand these exper. Expectations, and you're able to take some of these expectations off of yourself and have a more realistic attitude, that is so much easier to move through life.

[23:05] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, no, absolutely.

[23:06] Suzzie Vehrs: And.

[23:06] Christi Gmyr: And I actually. So I am a therapist, and I have talked to, you know, I've had a lot of sessions with moms and whatnot. And I have to say, like, this is something that I hear over and over and over again, and I do talk to them about the same idea,

[23:19] because,

[23:20] yes, there can be the problem, of course, of. Or the issue, of course of, like, what sort of help and support are we getting? Are we not getting? What does that look like?[23:27] How can we delegate all of those sorts of things? But on top of that,

[23:31] so many moms really struggle with this idea of,

[23:36] like, giving up control,

[23:38] right? They like things done a certain way. They like things done their way. You know, a lot of times it creates anxiety for them when they are,

[23:46] you know, when they're not. When they're not able to do things themselves. And so a lot of it can be around also doing some of that work to,

[23:57] you know, move towards being okay with things not being done exactly the way that you would do that, you know, if it means allowing that help and,

[24:06] you know, and having somebody else step in to take something off of your plate. And so that is something that is incredibly common. You know, I see it all the time, and I'm really glad that you mentioned it, because if any.

[24:18] If anybody knows that they are struggling with this, I just sort of want to point out that they're definitely not alone in that.

[24:23] Suzzie Vehrs: No, no, it took.

[24:24] Christi Gmyr: I.

[24:25] Suzzie Vehrs: My therapist, like I said, was so helpful, and I.

[24:28] You know, even the idea of going to therapy, because I. I am in homes often with people who have postpartum depression. And one of the things that I have noticed, and I felt this my same way.

[24:40] The same way, too, so I can really relate to it, is the sense of, like, well, before I go to therapy, I have to pull myself up to a point where I'm not embarrassed to be in therapy,[24:50] and it doesn't work that way. Like, you kind of have to be like, this is really embarrassing. I'm going in and, like, raw and vulnerable. And I never expected that I would feel this overwhelmed or this broken or this, like,

[25:05] you know, this needy.

[25:06] But I am, you know,

[25:08] and I Think that it can be really hard to even, to even reach out and accept and ask for help.

[25:14] I'm not sure where that comes from, but I know that it's very common.

[25:18] Christi Gmyr: Yes, no, absolutely.

[25:20] Well, and so I'm wondering, like, when you are working with moms, when you're working with,

[25:25] you know, these women,

[25:27] what are some of the signs that you personally see physically or emotionally that sort of let you know that a mom is maybe having a harder time and she really needs more support.

[25:38] Not necessarily more discipline for herself, but just really more support.

[25:44] Suzzie Vehrs: Yeah. Oh, I want to answer this question. Right. So I'm going to pause and think for just a moment.

[25:51] Christi Gmyr: Okay.

[25:52] Suzzie Vehrs: Okay. So at one point in my training, I learned about Maslow's triangle,

[26:02] which is like this idea of self actualization.

[26:07] And that is kind of like the foundation when I'm working with a theme family.

[26:13] And you know, like, obviously you want to see a mom glowing and happy and bonded and smiling and laughing and giggling and has energy to do things. And most moms are not, you know,

[26:32] some moms do, some moms do. Especially moms that have like this like, abundance of support do.

[26:39] Um,

[26:40] so Maslow's triangle, like the basically, like the very base, is like your physiological needs.

[26:48] And I feel like this is where so many moms get stuck in postpartum because, like, it does take 40 hours a week to feed a newborn, like just feeding them.

[26:58] And so, like,

[26:59] when you're feeding a baby all the time, what are you sacrificing? Well, your sleep, your rest, your nutrition, your hydration.

[27:08] If you're fighting with your partner over these things, like, is your environment safe?[27:14] That's kind of like the, the like very foundational base that I think someone who's a postpartum doula, like, they're going to come cook for you, they're going to give you time to sleep, they're going to help you do the things that are conducive to recovery.[27:30] And then from there you have like,

[27:34] you know, are you safe and secure? Are you like, having this sense of love and belonging with your partnership with your. With your partner?

[27:44] A lot of times as we get to like, those later postpartum shifts, like, there's more stability and there has been more rest because it's become normal to rest and to work together.

[27:55] Like, I feel like these are skills families develop when they're working with somebody who's like, no, you have to sleep. And it's willing to say, like, you need to sleep.[28:03] And when a mom's willing to Say, like, oh, I slept and I felt so much better. And now I'm gonna prioritize that. Like, that's a great thing. And then later, like, your last couple visits, you're like, sending them out for dates and they're having fun again and they're like,

[28:15] happy. Like, that to me is like this huge milestone. Because birth. Does pregnancy, birth and the newborn era take a lot from people?

[28:24] And then to add on top of that, like, is there space for hobbies? Is there space for Were fun? Is there,

[28:30] like, you kind of have to work from the bottom up sometimes?

[28:33] Because, like, if you're exhausted, going to Barnes and Noble to read a book and get a coffee is not actually fun anymore. You know, it's like, I did that, but it felt terrible because I felt terrible because I wasn't rested.

[28:46] So when I'm working

 with a family that kind of like,

[28:50] shapes like,

[28:53] you know.

[28:55] Christi Gmyr: Well, I think, you know. No, I think I understand what you're saying. So it sounds like, if I'm understanding right, what you're referring to is Maslow's hierarchy of needs, where basically, yeah, you imagine like a triangle and there are these different,[29:08] different deeds that people have to meet. But before you can,

[29:13] before you can really focus on or try to address meeting certain needs, you have to first address the ones below that. And you start with, like, your most basic needs at the bottom, you know, like, you were talking about, like,

[29:27] you. You know, in terms of like, sleep and things like that. And then it's like, once those are addressed, then you can start to introduce or focus on the next level up until you get to this point of, as you were talking about self actualization.

[29:40] And so it sounds like if I'm understanding right, this idea that you really kind of step in to help them to meet those basic, basic needs first so they're really taking care of themselves.

[29:53] You know, helping moms take care of themselves on the very most basic level. And then once they are more like once they're in a better spot,

[30:01] once they are managing those better and they're getting those needs addressed, then you help them sort of move on to the next thing. Is that. Did I understand all that right?

[30:09] Suzzie Vehrs: Yes, yes, yes. And I think that we often deny that those basic needs are real needs.

[30:16] Christi Gmyr: Yeah.

[30:17] Yes. Yeah.

[30:19] So then I imagine also, you know, in your work, you probably do a lot of ad advocacy. You know, you talked before about informed choices.

[30:30] How can moms apply that? How can moms, you know, apply that mindset into their work, into their home lives? Like, what does that look like for you?

[30:41] Ooh.

[30:44] Suzzie Vehrs: You were making so many decisions as a new mom, and it's, like, super overwhelming. Like, are you going to breastfeed? Are you going to pump? Are you going. Going to bottle feed which bottle to use?

[30:53] How you know, like, are you going to sleep train?

[30:56] Are you going to damage your baby forever because you sleep Decided to sleep train? You're not,

[31:02] but. And how do you build a secure attachment when you're doing hard things?[31:09] Yeah, I,

[31:11] you know, trying to make sure that people get as unbiased information as possible because I see people thrive no matter what choices I they're making, as long as they feel confident and supported in those choices.

[31:22] Right. Like, you can. You can have a.

[31:25] A birth that's like a, you know, a home birth with no interventions. You can choose a scheduled C section. Both very valid good choices. You can breastfeed, you can pump, you can bottle feed.

[31:36] Like, you can formula feed. All good choices for your baby. Like, you're still feeding your baby. You gave birth, you grew a human.

[31:43] The. I think that we're conditioned. Maybe not conditioned. I think it's easy to think of, like,

[31:52] I'll give you an example of a mom I worked with earlier this year. She really wanted to breastfeed. It was super important to her.

[31:59] Her baby was super fussy. There was, like, constantly, like, a lot of blood in her baby's ****. Like, not a little bit, a lot. So she worked with her pediatrician to see, like, is this dairy?

[32:10] Is this gluten? Is this, like, there was clearly some allergy.

[32:14] So she went on this very intense, like, elimination diet, which then very quickly was, like, altering her health, and it did not fix any problems for her baby. So eventually the pediatrician just prescribed this very fancy, like,

[32:29] very special formula that is made specifically for babies that are having issues.[32:34] Immediate change in the baby.

[32:36] Although it wasn't an immediate change for mom, right, because she was feeling guilty about, like, yeah, but, like, I know that breastfeeding is good for my baby. I wanted to breastfeed.

[32:46] This was my plan.

[32:47] And so there has to be this chance of, like, I think we really have to, like, grieve and honor those changes. She was also super amazing because at six months, she decided, like, she looked back and she was about ready to start work.

[33:02] She had this amazing maternity leave,

[33:04] and they were like, she was time to, like, she was like, we have to sleep train. Like, we just have to.

[33:10] And she's. She texted me, you know, before I told you that example of the mom who Was like, my house is too messy, so I'm going to cancel. I was like, no, this is literally my job.

[33:20] She texted me to cancel an appointment. She said, I decided I'm going to visit my cousin in Japan for a week while my husband sleep trains the baby. She got on a plane and she literally left for a week.

[33:30] And she came back, like, literally so refreshed,

[33:34] so happy.

[33:36] Christi Gmyr: So.

[33:37] Suzzie Vehrs: And her baby, like,

[33:39] and I mean, the. Was a very. Is an incredible dad as well,

[33:43] but he took care of it. Right. And there's an element of like, hey, we're in this together. I trust you. Like, also, like, I can't watch my baby. Like, this is going to be too much for me, so I'm gonna go do something really healthy for me.

[33:55] You do the hard part because it's. It's not going to be hard for you.

[33:58] Um,

[33:59] very cute. And then on their last visit when I came so they could do their, like, last little date night out together,

[34:05] like, I was trying to put the baby down. I put her down and I was, like, patting her belly the way the dad does. The baby kept, like, trying to climb out of the crib.

[34:13] And I was like, what am I doing wrong? And so the mom came in and did the same thing. Baby's still, like, crying,

[34:17] trying to crawl out of the crib. The dad's like, I got this. And he comes in, he does the exact same thing we did.

[34:23] She looks like, because we were watching on the monitor, you know, what is he gonna do differently? She looks up at him,

[34:29] takes a deep breath inside, like,

[34:32] put her head down, and fell asleep within, like, minutes. It was so cute. And so, like, you know, we worry about these things, like, if the baby is trying to crawl out of the crib, like, obviously she wanted to play with us because we both are.

[34:43] Like, that's what she's usually doing.

[34:46] Christi Gmyr: Yeah.

[34:46] Suzzie Vehrs: You know, So I think when you can find safety in these choices that are maybe different than what you thought was the choice you would make,

[34:55] there's a lot of joy there. Right. And that it's okay to find safety and choices that, like, once you're in it and you see what the real needs of your family are, to, like, meet those needs and, and live that reality instead of trying to perpetuate some ideal that's not practical for your family.

[35:14] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.

[35:17] Well, and I know another thing that you have talked about before is how you really try to work with families to prioritize motherhood. You refer to it as motherhood flow along with prioritizing their career success.

[35:34] And I'm wondering if you could just briefly talk about, for starters, what does motherhood flow mean? Like, what does that mean to you when you are talking about it? And then how do you help moms to prioritize that?

[35:46] Like, both of those things? That and career success?

[35:48] Suzzie Vehrs: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, most of my moms are going back to work after, you know, some of them very quickly,

[35:55] some of them in. In months,

[36:00] I think, like, understanding, like, the reality of what is this going to take so that I can, you know. Because if you can really visualize, like,

[36:10] if I'm gone from my house for nine hours and then I'm coming home to my baby, how do I want that time to be spent? Do you want that time to be spent washing bottles, or do you want that time to be spent, like, laughing and doing the bath?

[36:24] And, like,

[36:25] you know, if you can think about it and, like, what do you want to do? Then you can set up your systems and your structures and hand off the tasks that,

[36:35] you know,[36:38] might otherwise just fall to you by default.

[36:42] And I think it's really important to learn how to hand things off.

[36:45] One thing that I learned when I was taking, when I was doing, you know, in my. My class, my early in my business, I took a lot of different classes.

[36:56] And one of the. The teachers, the classes I took,

[37:00] her name was Melissa Cassera. She has a really great podcast, too,

[37:04] about, like,

[37:05] financial life as a woman,

[37:08] as women. But she taught this concept of, like, swirl, like, how do you make your work pleasurable?

[37:13] And you should really focus on the things that are most pleasurable. And you need to always be asking yourself,

[37:19] is this good for me or not? And if not, you need to do something about it.

[37:23] Right? And I think that for. And when it comes to motherhood, like,

[37:27] one of the families I worked with,

[37:31] oh, geez.

[37:33] Early in the year, this year,

[37:34] she gave birth at the same time that she had graduated with her doctorate. And so for her to go into her next program,

[37:45] she,

[37:46] like, literally took no time off. She, like, gave birth and the next week was starting her job.

[37:52] And so we talked about that. We're like, okay, like,

[37:55] what. What is important to you when it comes to feeding your baby? And she was like, I want him to have breast milk. That's really important to me. So we worked out, like, okay, like, how are you going to be able to pump at work in this incredibly difficult,

[38:09]

 you know, demanding thing? And she was able to talk with her boss, find her pumping breaks, get a ton of support around that from her work, she was like this pumping queen.[38:17] She loved it. And then when we talked about, like, okay,

[38:21] how are we going to use, like, you have all these postpartum hours. You're actually not even going to be home in the house when I'm doing these. Like, the dad was the one.[38:28] He. He had a little bit more leave.

[38:31] Again, great dad.

[38:33] And then he worked from home, so he did a lot of the childcare while he was walking. She was like, well, one of the things that's, like, my priorities is I really believe in nutrition.

[38:42] And I know that when I eat well, I feel better.

[38:45] And so I would literally, when I would come,

[38:47] me and their sweet little boy, like, I'd put them in a little bouncer, I'd give them his bottle. And, you know, some newborns, you can't do this with because they're very fussy.[38:55] Her newborn was not fussy. So I could do this, but I would cook literally a week's worth of food for them and meal prep it in little containers so that she had her breakfast, lunch, dinner, and could just grab some.

[39:05] A couple snacks. And same for the dad. Like, they were not figuring out their meals. And so then when they came home in the evening,

[39:13] they would do their bath time together and they had the things that they really valued as, like, this positive, fun time and they weren't being lost in all the tasks.

[39:22] Um,

[39:22] you know, sometimes we can do that on our own through batch cooking. Sometimes it means hiring somebody to help with those things.

[39:30] But I think when you. When you're thinking about, like, what is most important to me first,

[39:35] and then those things can bring you joy because even though they're work, it's like meaningful and purposeful work, not stuff that you just have to do.

[39:44] I think there's a big difference in, In.

[39:47] In the feeling of work that is meaningful.

[39:51] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, no, absolutely. Well, and I appreciate, you know, you taking the time to, to talk about that and to explain that, because again, this idea that we can't do everything right.

[40:03] And so how. How do you prioritize things? And to your point, you know, what are the.

[40:08] How do you really think about the things that are especially important and make sure that you're fitting those in in a way that, that feels good, you know, so that.

[40:18] Yeah, I appreciate you taking the time to talk about that.

[40:21] So this is all. This has all been really wonderful. I really appreciate, you know, you taking time out of your day.

[40:27] Before we kind of wrap up for the day, I'm wondering where, if people want to learn more about you if they want to learn more about the work that you do.

[40:34] Where can I go to do that?

[40:36] Suzzie Vehrs: Yeah, I am on Instagram at Shebirds Bravely. I also have a website, shebirdsfravely.com that has recipes and you have a first trimester checklist that's freed.[40:48] Kind of sets you up with like, these are. You know, you have this overwhelming amount of things to do. You get like an email every day. That's like one little thing to check off your list.

[40:57] We have a great birth course, so I have a separate team that runs most of the course for me now. But,

[41:05] yeah, it's so much fun. We have such a great community and I love connecting with moms, so.

[41:11] Christi Gmyr: Okay, great. Well, thank you. And I will make sure to include all of that information in the show notes for anybody who is interested in checking that out.[41:21] So before we do say goodbye for today, if you could leave the listener with one final message, one final piece of advice,

[41:28] what would it be?

[41:31] Suzzie Vehrs: You matter.

[41:32] It's not worth sacrificing your happiness and joy for everyone else that, you know. The studies show that the most successful kids have the happiest mothers. So you have to think about your happiness and the amount that you're going to sacrifice.

[41:50] Obviously, parenting requires sacrifice, but you can't sacrifice your soul to do it.[41:56] Christi Gmyr: Yes, no, absolutely.

[41:59] Well, thank you again so much. Thank you for being here. You know, and as always, for the moms who are listening, if any of this resonates, if you found any of the things we talked about today to be helpful, to be valuable,

[42:11] you know, please feel free to look Susie up. You know, you can learn more about her. And then please just share this podcast with any other moms that could maybe use some additional support,

[42:21] because we are all in this together.

[42:23] Suzzie Vehrs: Yes, we are.