EPS 44. When Stress Shows Up in Your Stomach: Why Burned Out Moms Struggle with Gut Health

If you've ever dealt with bloating, constipation or IBS symptoms along with anxiety, irritability or severe exhaustion and fatigue, this conversation is for you.

In today's episode of Overcaffeinated and Out of Effs I'm joined by Lola MacLean, a functional medicine-trained family nurse practitioner and gut health consultant, to discuss something so many high-achieving moms experience but rarely want to talk about...or even realize has a connection: the two-way relationship between stress and digestion.

Lola shares her own story of pushing through exhaustion, ignoring her body's warning signs and finally being forced to confront the toll chronic stress had taken on her gut health and nervous system.

Together we talk about:

• Why chronic stress literally slows digestion

• How gut imbalances can fuel anxiety, mood swings and overwhelm

• Why high-achieving women are especially prone to digestive issues

• Simple, sustainable shifts that support both your nervous system and your gut without adding 47 supplements to your routine

• How healing your gut can improve your energy, patience and emotional regulation

This episode is your reminder that feeling chronically unwell is not your baseline and it's not something you have to power through. Your body isn't working against you. It's communicating with you. And this conversation will tell you what you need to know so you feel more equipped to start listening.

About Lola:

Lola MacLean is a functional gut health consultant and family nurse practitioner who helps professional women finally get lasting relief from bloating, constipation, IBS, and the stress that comes with feeling unwell. Through a simple, sustainable, root-cause approach, she blends functional medicine with practical lifestyle support so her clients can reclaim their energy, clarity, and confidence. She’s the founder of Haelan Empowered, where she teaches women that healing can be simple and sustainable.

Find Lola at:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lolamacleandnp/

Free Bloating Guide: https://www.haelanempowered.com/bloatguide

[00:04] Christi Gmyr: Welcome to Overcaffeinated and Out of Effs, the podcast for burned out, career-minded moms who are ready to stop pretending everything's fine and feel like themselves again.

[00:15] I'm your host, Christi Gmyr, burnout coach for moms, licensed therapist and mom of two. And I'm here to help you reclaim your energy, your identity, and your peace of mind.

[00:25] Whether you're lying awake thinking about the 87 things you didn't get done or silently resenting the people you love most,

[00:32] This is your space to feel seen, supported, and not so alone.[00:36] So grab your coffee, hot, cold or day old, and let's get into it.

[00:47] Hey, everybody, it's Christi.

[00:50] Welcome to Overcaffeinated and Out of Effs.

[00:53] In today's episode, I'd like to welcome our guest, Lola MacLean.

[00:58] Lola is a functional gut health consultant and family nurse practitioner who helps professional women finally get lasting relief from bloating, constipation, IBS,

[01:09] and the stress that comes with feeling unwell.

[01:11] Through a simple, sustainable and root cause approach,

[01:15] she blends functional medicine with practical lifestyle support so her clients can reclaim their energy,

[01:21] clarity and confidence.

[01:23] She's the founder of Haelan Empowered, where she teaches women that healing can be simple and sustainable.

[01:30] So I have invited Lola here today to share her personal burnout story. She's gonna talk a bit about gut health, the relationship to stress, specifically as it relates to high achieving women and moms.

[01:44] So,

[01:45] Lola, thank you so much for being here today.

[01:48] Lola MacLean: Yeah, thank you so much. That was a mouthful of an introduction. So thank you.

[01:53] Christi Gmyr: Yeah. Do you maybe just start off by telling us a little bit? Obviously we just introduced you, but you may be just telling us a little bit about, you know, yourself, the work that you do, and how you got into it.

[02:04] Yeah, absolutely.

[02:06] Lola MacLean: So, like, as you said, I am a family nurse practitioner and I have been in the healthcare space for

[02:15] Christi Gmyr: it's

[02:16] Lola MacLean: been like 16, 17 years now.

[02:20] And so with that, like, I've had kind of this, like,

[02:24] evolving journey through healthcare. And one of the biggest shifts that came and kind of pushed me into what I'm doing now was my own personal journey through burnout and IBS.

[02:39] And just a lot of what my patients in primary care would bring up were digestive complaints. So all of that combined kind of pushed me in what I do now, which is functional medicine.

[02:51] And with functional medicine, it often gets a bad rap these days because it's kind of gone over to the supplement heavy side of things. Right. I think functional medicine is expensive testing and a lot of supplements and that's not what it is.

[03:04] Right. It's really going upstream or beyond just that. Label the diagnosis and as why is this happening in your unique body and your unique situation?

[03:18] How do we kind of navigate that and actually get to a place where we can do some of that deep work and deep healing to relieve symptoms? Right.

[03:27] Christi Gmyr: Okay. Okay, great. And, well, and I know one of the things you're gonna share with us later are some strategies that are separate from using supplements. Right. So I'm excited to hear about some of that.

[03:38] But before we get into any of that, do you mind just sharing a little bit about,

[03:41] you know, your own personal burnout story you just kind of referenced a minute ago?

[03:45] Lola MacLean: Yeah,

[03:46] so I have.

[03:49] So I kind of like gut health stuff, right. So I have struggled with lifelong kind of gut issues, Right. I was the constipated child, always kind of the more like high anxiety, worrier, perfectionist kind of kid.

[04:01] And that, like, went way into high school, college. I got diagnosed with IBS.

[04:08] And from everything that I was told, everything that I learned in my own medical training and conventional training, it was very much like, this is just what it is. You have to live with this.

[04:19] So bloating, constipation,

[04:21] you know, reacting to all sorts of different foods on a regular basis, which is kind of my norm, and lived with it. It was fine.

[04:28] I also had this, like underlying high functioning anxiety, Right.

[04:33] That a lot of us kind of deal with. And it like, I had my workarounds and it was fine. I could just get through things.

[04:40] It was fine. Everything was fine. That's the word I used to describe.

[04:42] Christi Gmyr: Right.

[04:42] Lola MacLean: Like, it's fine as you're like being to everything.

[04:47] And then flash forward to 2019,

[04:51] I became pregnant with my daughter, right? And it was a wonderful time. And then 2020 hit and she was born in March of 2020, so.

[05:04] Christi Gmyr: Oh, my gosh. That was my son. We have that in common.

[05:09] Lola MacLean: Yeah.

[05:10] Christi Gmyr: Oh, my God.

[05:11] Lola MacLean: Yeah.

[05:11] Christi Gmyr: So there was that.

[05:12] Lola MacLean: My first child.

[05:13] And that's why she's my only. Because you can't promise me that won't happen again. But so my first child during that time period,

[05:20] then going back to work in a completely shifted healthcare situation, right? Where there was so much distrust, so much just fear and insecurity with what primary care had been previously.

[05:37] And then my. A whole lot of my anxiety, like, came up really bad. My gut symptoms got a whole lot worse.

[05:45] And I was at a point where I was like, I feel awful,

[05:48] things are terrible. I need to go see my doc. And so I went to see her and she's like, it's just ibs. You know what the deal is? We're going to start you on an SSRI or a medication for anxiety, depression and IBS.

[06:00] And I was like,

[06:01] this is.

[06:02] This is not it. And in that, too, she was like, oh, well, it's just the season. You're a new mom. Oh, this is just a lot of stress from what's going on with healthcare these days.[06:11] Like, this is just a time period. And I was like, this is not it. There's more to this story. And that's where I went down that medicine rabbit hole. And like,

[06:21] it's. It was not a good period. Right. There was a lot of, like, frustration and anger.[06:26] And looking back at it now, it's like, wow, that was a whole different person. And I.[06:31] I'm still in that period where I'm like, it's a little raw.

[06:35] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, right.

[06:36] Lola MacLean: But definitely,

[06:38] like, now being able to look back and like, I'm so grateful I found functional medicine and was able to really transform and shift things that way without going down the full, like,

[06:49] burnout road of like, I can't do this anymore and I'm miserable. Right. Because I got there and healthcare practitioners are there now, and it's terrible.

[07:00] Christi Gmyr: Well, and it sounds like, okay, so you were being told one thing by your provider, and you. You knew yourself well enough to know that, that. That there was something else bigger that was going on.

[07:10] How did you eventually come to realize,

[07:13] you know, that it was your body signaling burnout and it wasn't just,

[07:18] you know, the IBS that you were being told?

[07:20] Lola MacLean: Yeah, yeah. So I think with that too, you know, because at least in the healthcare sphere, 2020, there was a lot of stuff, stuff that popped up for providers around burnout just because everybody was being driven into the ground.

[07:33] And so there was all this research coming out and all these articles coming out about, like, here's how we identify burnout and here's the signs to recognize it. And it's like, oh, yeah, no,

[07:43] I hate everything that I'm doing right now with a passion.

[07:47] And it is more than just like, oh, this is annoying, or I'm irritable or whatever. You know, it's like that lost of zest for life. And it wasn't. It wasn't depression, it wasn't my anxiety.

[08:01] It was something. It was that deeper piece where it's like, I'm just, this is not it and I don't like this anymore.

[08:07] Christi Gmyr: Well, and then I'm curious, like, did Was there ever, like, a specific point where you really just sort of knew, okay, something has to change, something has to be different. This is not working anymore.

[08:20] Lola MacLean: Yeah, I. It was definitely that moment in my provider's office when she was like, here's the drill. You know what this is? And it's like,

[08:27] I have seen this over and over again with my own patients where it's like, okay, we start, you on this medication, you go see the specialist, and it doesn't change anything, and you're still complaining 10 years later that nothing's working and it's gotten worse.[08:41] And I was like, I don't want to go down that road. I know that there's something else that I can be doing. I don't know what it is yet, but I know there's something else.[08:48] And that was just kind of like that. I think being on the other side of the table, that was the biggest thing for me.

[08:53] Christi Gmyr: Right, right, right. Yeah, no, absolutely.

[08:56] Well, so then, just to kind of help us all understand,

[08:59] you know, people who maybe are having similar experiences or wanting to learn more,

[09:04] can you help us understand, like, how does stress, you know, physiologically slow digestion, disrupt hormones, add to overwhelm, like what is actually happening in the body when that's going on?

[09:17] Lola MacLean: Yeah. So stress. I think there's two big things. First to split. One is that stress can be both psychological and it can be physiological.

[09:29] Christi Gmyr: Right.

[09:29] Lola MacLean: So a lot of us are walking around and we're just fine.

[09:33] And there's also this physiological stress that's going on because we've got either elevated blood sugars or we're not moving our body enough, we're not sleeping well.[09:42] You know, those kinds of things are stressors on the body. But then that psychological stress, too, your body interprets it's. This. Interprets it the same way. And you're in this fight flight mode,

[09:53] right, that fight, fight, fight, flight, freeze or that sympathetic drive,

[09:58] whereas digestion itself is actually a parasympathetic one. Right. So we have that rest and digest stage. And when we're in that sympathetic state, we cannot

 digest. Our body is not designed to do that.

[10:13] Right.

[10:14] So when we have this,

[10:17] like,

[10:18] ongoing stress, we're busy, we're overactive, we're running on fumes.

[10:24] We aren't making the digestive enzymes. We need to,

[10:28] like, properly break down our food.

[10:30] We don't absorb all the nutrients and things that we need that way to really get what we need to make adequate hormones to help us to regulate our blood sugars, to help us with good you know,

[10:44] neurotransmitter production and like nervous system functioning.

[10:48] So then also with that, we start to slow down our digestion because if we're not digesting, we don't actually get the movement.

[10:57] Right. A lot of people who are stressed out, they have this like ongoing constipation piece that comes in.

[11:04] Right. And that can be because of that lower stomach acid, and it can just be because of that poor motility, that lower serotonin.

[11:13] And when that's going on and we're not having a daily bowel movement, we're not pooping, you know, we actually end up reabsorbing a lot of toxins. We reabsorb some of our hormones.

[11:24] And so then it just creates this forward feeding cycle of like, okay, now we've got more stress, like physiological stress that is compounding this.

[11:35] So that's kind of what goes on in the background of everything.

[11:39] Christi Gmyr: Well, and then the busier and more stressed a person is going to be, it sounds like those digestive issues are likely going to just get worse. Worse. Yeah, yeah.[11:50] Lola MacLean: Feeds itself, Right. So you start having just a little bit of a problem and then it starts to get worse and worse and worse and then you stress out about it.[11:58] Now it's getting more. It's getting worse and it just keeps going, you know.

[12:03] Christi Gmyr: Okay, well, so. And to continue on with that, I mean, can you talk a little bit about why so many high achieving women specifically are prone to these gut problems?

[12:14] Lola MacLean: Yeah. So I mean, like, think about what a high achieving person is. Right. We all kind of tend to have a little bit of a perfectionist tendency. We tend to have poor boundaries in the sense of like, we're not good at saying no to things.

[12:26] So we take on a lot. We generally tend to put ourselves last. Right. So do for everybody else, but don't actually have the space to recognize what's going on with us.[12:41] We also tend to live a lot in our heads. Right. We don't really,

[12:46] we've learned to not sit with what's going on in the body. And so we don't always recognize the signals for like, oh, I need to go to the bathroom or oh, I'm thirsty, or oh,[12:57] you know,

[12:57] like these things just haven't like really tuned into.

[13:01] Um,

[13:02] and also because we are so like, go, go, go, go, go.

[13:06] We're just in that mode. We're in that sympathetic state of like, okay, I'm rushing to the next task or I'm eating on the go, which is not the best, or I'm, you Know, eating at my desk because I've got this meeting, I've got to just like, rush through this.

[13:19] Or it's that rush, that sensation of go. And while we might not think of it as, like, psychological stress, it's not. Stressful.

[13:26] Is still a psychological stressor. Right. Because you're tell that, like, excitement that like, oh, gosh, okay, I've got this next thing. Your body's still like, oh, that's. That's a lot.[13:35] Like, this is stressful. This is a stressful situation. I'm running from a tiger. I'm amped up. Like, let's. Let's do this.

[13:40] Right.

[13:41] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, no, absolutely. And one to your point, I mean, as you're saying, like, a lot of times they're just. These things might be happening, but maybe they are just sort of like, pushed aside.

[13:51] Or we don't like, think about them too much because maybe we just think about them. Well, one, we're preoccupied with other things, but two,

[13:57] maybe we just think of them as like,

[14:00] quote unquote,

[14:01] normal gut system or symptoms. You know what I mean? Or. And that's what it sounds like you're saying. And so with that in mind, it sounds like there can be a lot of overlap.

[14:10] Of course. Right. It sounds like a lot of the symptoms could be,

[14:14] you know,

[14:14] specifically gut symptoms on their own versus being related to stress. And so I'm wondering if there's a way to be able to tell the difference, you know,

[14:25] or if there are any specific gut symptoms that are maybe actually stress symptoms.[14:32] Lola MacLean: Yeah. And so I guess too with that, like,

[14:34] they are one of the big things is that gut brain access, right? And it's really not separate.

[14:43] They like you, your body,

[14:46] while we have these separate organs and these separate systems. And this is one of my,

[14:52] like, qualms with conventional medicine.

[14:54] It. They all work together. Right. So just focusing on one on a silo is not gonna help anything. And so with that gut brain access, right, like, we have our neuro.

[15:06] Like a lot of our neurotransmitters are actually made in our gut. So serotonin, dopamine, gaba, those are really important neurotransmitters that are synthesized in our digestive system.

[15:19] Um,

[15:19] also all of the nutrients and minerals that we need for good cellular function, even at the brain level, those are gone. Like they have to go through the digestive system first.[15:32] With that gut brain access, a lot of the things, it runs along your vagus nerve, but most of the information is going from your gut to your brain. 90% of the gut is from the gut to the brain versus the brain having only 10% of the conversation to the gut.

[15:48] So if we're thinking like, oh, this is mostly stress mediated, there are some, there are some definite, definite cues. Right. Like are your symptoms worse when you're under stress?

[16:00] It's probably very much tied to that rushing, that going, you know, I only get bloated when I'm stressed out or I have diarrhea when I have a big meeting or, you know, I don't go to the bathroom for three days before a big talk.

[16:13] Right.

[16:15] Versus like this is happening on a day to day basis.

[16:21] Stressed out,

[16:22] then more gut focused than the brain focused, if that makes sense.

[16:29] Christi Gmyr: No, it does. It sounds like one of the things that maybe you would encourage people to do would be to just really kind of pay attention to,

[16:35] you know, whether it's keeping a journal or whatever. Paying attention to what, when these symptoms are happening, how often they're happening, what else is maybe going on in their lives and try to get a better understanding that way.

[16:46] Lola MacLean: Yeah, definitely. Like that first piece of really, like having clarity around what is going on is a big thing. Right. So how often is it happening or when is it happening or those things?

[16:58] That's a, that's a really important part to really come back to our bodies again. Because so much, so much, so many of us are just like out,

[17:08] you know, out of our bodies. We're doing so many other things.

[17:11] Just having that awareness of like, oh, yeah, it happens every time I eat dinner. Like, okay, that's a bigger diff. That's a big deal. Versus like, oh, it happens once a week on Fridays when we've got a group meeting, you know.

[17:24] Christi Gmyr: Right, yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.

[17:27] Okay, well, so now I'm wondering if we can maybe shift gears a little bit and talk about ways that we can help the moms who are maybe struggling with some of this.[17:36] The, the busy, stressed out moms.

[17:38] Lola MacLean: Yeah.

[17:39] Christi Gmyr: So what are some, you know, when you talked about before, you know, wanting to help moms without supplements, you know, and so what are maybe some simple doable shifts that can help these moms to regulate their nervous system and really just kind of get their energy back, like those kinds of things.

[17:57] Lola MacLean: Yeah. One of the biggest things that I love and I see make the most difference with a lot of my clients is actually something called eating hygiene.

[18:08] Right. And so it is,

[18:10] in theory, one of the simplest things to do in practicality can be one of the hardest because what it requires is, it's like you actually are present with your meal, you sit down.[18:28] Christi Gmyr: That sounds hard.

[18:31] Lola MacLean: Sit down to eat and, like, focus on what is in front of you. You know, like, smell it, look at the beautiful colors.

[18:39] Like,

[18:40] actually engage with it. And then really taking the time to taste it. So chewing really thoroughly. So that way things can get digested,

[18:50] like broken down and chewed before they hit your stomach. Right. Because then if you're actually taking the time to chew when it hits your stomach, you're not going to get a whole lot of bloating.

[19:01] You're not going to be uncomfortable right away. Like,

[19:04] your body has an easier time digesting things with that, too. It's also not drinking all of your water at your meal times. Right. I know, because we're on the go and we don't think about it.

[19:16] And then you sit down, you're like, oh, I haven't had any water today. Let me chug this.

[19:20] While you're also eating your food. Like,

[19:22] that completely stops digestion, too, because now we've diluted our stomach acid and we've added this volume of liquid that's going to make us feel bloated and gross and slow things down as well.

[19:36] Right?

[19:36] Christi Gmyr: Okay. Yeah, no, absolutely.

[19:39] Well, and I guess, you know, one of the things that I'm wondering about,

[19:43] so I'm always trying to, you know, bring in people to talk to the moms about strategies that can help them

 with their burnout, with their busy lives in these different ways.

[19:52] And of course they're busy. Right. And so it can be. It can feel really overwhelming. I think a lot of times just the idea of, okay, and now I'm going down.

[20:03] Lola MacLean: Yeah. Or.

[20:04] Christi Gmyr: Or to, like, just put new strategies into practice, things that they're unfamiliar with and things like that. And so I'm wondering if.

[20:12] If you just wanted to help these moms just to kind of get started, you know, just to kind of take that very first step to start focusing on these things, to really start paying attention, you know, to make some of these changes.

[20:22] I'm wondering if there is, like, one daily habit or one specific step that you would encourage them to take that's not going to feel that they're not just going to dismiss or ignore because of everything else they have going on.

[20:35] Lola MacLean: And that's. It is that like that meal. Prime one. And I think that, honestly, like,

[20:40] I know that it can feel like things are rushed and there's a lot going on. And definitely, like.

[20:45] Like, for example, we have a really hard time with dinner. Right. Because our kid doesn't want to sit down and actually Eat. She wants to be moving other things. But it sets, it also sets a habit for them as well.

[20:58] Right. Like if we start with ourselves and start these good habits,

[21:04] then our kids also develop those habits. Right?

[21:08] And not to like age myself or anything like that, but growing up like the 80s and the 90s, right. Like everybody was going, we're all going. And so now that's what we do.[21:18] And I didn't have that good sit down meal time with my family and now like having to come back and try and do it with our family, it's like, whoa, this is a completely different experience,

[21:27] right?

[21:28] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, no, absolutely.

[21:31] Lola MacLean: But also outside of that, you know, I, I would really encourage people like taking a moment,

[21:42] even just one,

[21:44] like setting an alarm,

[21:46] having 30 seconds to just feel your body, right. To really check and see what's going on.

[21:53] Because that,

[21:55] that's kind of the gateway to all of this is like if you're not paying attention to the signals, if you're not listening to your body,

[22:01] you know, and you're only thinking like, oh, I'm bloated, just randomly, or oh, why is this happening? Like, if we're not aware of how often it's going on or those kinds of things, then we can't actually start to make changes.

[22:12] Christi Gmyr: Right, right, right.

[22:14] Lola MacLean: Yeah.

[22:14] Christi Gmyr: Well, and one of the things that I'm loving about this conversation is, is it's just,

[22:19] you know, people maybe haven't even thought about this before. You know, I know for me personally, a lot of times I'm just sort of going through my life, going through my day, doing the things that I need to do.

[22:29] And if there is something happening with my body regarding like digestion and things like that, I, I might not necessarily stop to really pay attention to that. I might just think about it as like this quote unquote, normal thing.

[22:41] Right. And so I love that you are really sort of bringing awareness to people who maybe wouldn't necessarily stop to think about those things, you know, and that

[22:52] Lola MacLean: I think that's so true. Like, we have normalized this so much, right? Like, oh, it's just like to be a woman is to be bloated. Or like so many of us just have constipation, it's not a big deal.

[23:02] But we also don't talk about it, right. Because digestion is such a private thing, right?

[23:08] Like, I mean,

[23:10] besides. Well, I mean, because I do this for a living all day. So I talk about **** all day and my five year old talks to me about her ****.

[23:16] But side of like our conversations with our small children.

[23:20] Christi Gmyr: Right.

[23:20] Lola MacLean: Like,

[23:22] about it. Right. Do we talk about it with anybody? And it's something that everybody does.

[23:27] And then on top of that, so many of us have been. I don't like the word gaslit, but it is. We've been kind of gaslit by our providers that, oh, it's just the stage of life you're in.[23:38] Oh, this is just normal. This is just what it is.

[23:41] And that's not.

[23:43] Christi Gmyr: It's like very minimizing. It sounds like indismissive.

[23:46] Yeah,

[23:47] yeah. No, I have to laugh a little bit when you talk about your kids because that's something that I do notice, you know, every time I, I try to talk about these things in a normal sense with my own children and, and they do the same, you know, I eventually I imagine that they will start shift.

[24:04] Yeah, exactly. Especially, you know, because I'm sure things will happen at school with their peers and all of those kinds of things. But right now it's just normal and natural and for them, a lot of times it's funny,

[24:16] you know, and then we get older and a lot of times that changes so

[24:21] Lola MacLean: way. Right. Like, that should be how it is. It's like,

[24:23] let's talk about it. Because everybody does it. And you know, if you haven't pooped in three days, you feel gross, you feel uncomfortable,

[24:33] and it's not normal. And if somebody has told you that's normal.

[24:37] Yeah,

[24:38] that's not. It's not.

[24:40] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.

[24:42] So where can listeners who want to learn more about this, who want to learn more about you, you know, where can they go to do that?

[24:50] Lola MacLean: So definitely Instagram is the biggest thing right now. Um, I have a lot of educational content on there. I do a lot of like, IG lives and talk more about it.

[25:00] Because digestion is such a broad topic too. There's a lot of different things that I go into. So that's a great way.

[25:09] Um, and then also,

[25:12] if so through Instagram,

[25:16] um, I also do a weekly newsletter. So that's another way that people can find me too.

[25:20] Christi Gmyr: Okay, great. And so I will of course include all of that in the show notes for anybody who is interested in looking into those things.

[25:28] Um, before we do kind of start to wrap up for the. For today,

[25:32] is there.

[25:33] Do you have any other final thoughts? Like, if you could leave the listeners with one final message, one final piece of advice, what would it be?

[25:40] Lola MacLean: So I think that first and foremost, it's that starting to pay attention. Right. So symptoms are not random and it's your way of your body communicating with you.

[25:51] So we need to start paying attention,

[25:54] right?

[25:54] Christi Gmyr: Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely.

[25:57] Well, thank you again. You know, I really do appreciate it. I appreciate your time, you know, being here today.

[26:04] I imagine that you, again, are busy as well, and so I know your time is valuable, so I do appreciate it.

[26:11] And then, as always, for the moms who are listening, if any of this resonates, if you found these things that we talked about today to be helpful,

[26:18] you know, please look up Lola. Please share this podcast with any other moms who could maybe use some support, because we're all in this together.