EPS 37. "I'm (Not) Fine": When You Finally realize the 'Shoulds' Aren't Working

In this episode of Overcaffeinated and Out of Effs I'm talking with Kari Hurd, speaker, bestselling author, podcast host, coach and consultant about how she went from living by everyone else's “shoulds” to reclaiming a life that actually lights her up. Kari shares her journey from burnout, people-pleasing and living for appearances to slowing down, reconnecting with herself, and building a life on her own terms.

Kari gets real about:

• The moment she realized “fine” wasn't fine anymore

• How living by the “shoulds” steals your peace and identity

• How she ditched expectations and started creating a life she was excited about

• Practical steps for moms to set boundaries without guilt

• The things Kari wishes more people understood about being a single parent

• How humor, honesty and self-compassion can make the messy middle of burnout a little more bearable

Kari reminds us all that we're allowed to want more and go get it - it's never too late to build a life you love.

Find Kari at:

Kari.hurd@gmail.com

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/karihurd

Instagram:  @karihurd

Substack:  @karihurd

[00:04] Christi Gmyr: Welcome to Overcaffeinated and Out of Effs, the podcast for burned out, career-minded moms who are ready to stop pretending everything's fine and feel like themselves again.

[00:15] I'm your host, Christi Gmyr, burnout coach for moms, licensed therapist and mom of two. And I'm here to help you reclaim your energy, your identity, and your peace of mind.

[00:25] Whether you're lying awake thinking about the 87 things you didn't get done or silently resenting the people you love most,

[00:32] This is your space to feel seen, supported, and not so alone.

[00:36] So grab your coffee, hot, cold or day old, and let's get into it.

[00:47] Hey everybody, it's Christi.

[00:49] Welcome to Overcaffeinated and Out of Effs.

[00:53] In today's episode, I'd like to welcome our guest, Kari Hurd. Kari spent years playing, playing by the shoulds, the house, the marriage, the minivan, the smile that says everything is fine.

[01:04] Spoiler it wasn't.

[01:05] After hitting her midlife breaking point and subsequent awakening, she ditched expectations and started designing a life that actually lights her up.

[01:14] Now a speaker, best selling author, podcast host, coach and consultant, Kari helps women who are over caffeinated, overwhelmed and fresh out of effs remember they're allowed to want more and go get it.

[01:26] She's here for real talk, big laughs, and the truth that it's never too late to build a life you love.

[01:31] So I've invited Kari here today to share her story, you know, to really talk about, you know, her experiences as a burned out working mom,

[01:40] what that looked like for her and how she moved through it. So,

[01:46] Kari,

[01:47] thank you so much for being here today.

[01:49] Kari Hurd: Thank you for having me. I'm grateful to be here.

[01:52] Christi Gmyr: Yes, me too.

[01:54] So do you mind just starting off by telling us a little bit, you know, about yourself, your family, your work,

[02:00] and really what did life look for you during those years where you were, you know, playing by the shoulds?

[02:06] Kari Hurd: Yeah. Yep.

[02:08] So I'm going to actually start kind of at, at the back end. I, I'll get to my current situation, but I think my shoulds actually started even before I left college,[02:21] met my college sweetheart,

[02:23] got a degree in education because that's what everybody around me was doing and,

[02:30] you know, then subsequently got married to him and we had babies and we did the dog and the minivan and the, we, we did all those things, all the, the shoulds.

[02:39] Um, and I think it stemmed from a place of I didn't have a clear vision of what I wanted. And I'll, you know, we can circle back to that throughout this conversation.

[02:51] Cause I think that that becomes a. A big theme for me and things that I discovered.[02:55] Um,

[02:56] so I had my babies, I drove the minivan. I hated that. I loved the minivan.

[03:04] Christi Gmyr: I've heard that from a lot of people. Yeah.

[03:07] Kari Hurd: Like, I hated that we got it and then we got it, and I hated to admit that it was good. And yeah,

[03:15] we unfortunately ended up getting divorced due to some circumstances, whatever. And I ended up raising my kids on my own for the most part,

[03:25] as a. You know, that I was a teacher for 25 years.

[03:31] Today I. Those two kids are. I am an empty nester. Those two kids are out on their own, living with their respective partners.[03:40] And I have the best little tribe I could ever want.

[03:46] And you know,

[03:47] on paper, and I think that this was the big sort of turning point for me was what I started with looked good on paper, but was not good for my soul.

[03:57] Now looks ridiculous on paper, but lights me up and keeps me sane. And you know, I like, I'm living in this land of peace for myself and not just for.

[04:07] For the moms listening. It's not just because my kids are out of the house. Like, that isn't because I used to think that. Right. And I think a lot of, like, people listening is like, okay, well, once the kids get out of the house, then I'll feel sort of calmer and it won't be.

[04:19] It's less chaotic. Yes,

[04:22] but less chaotic doesn't necessarily bring peace. Right. And so I had to do a lot of introspection to find that.

[04:30] That peace and that what really lights me up and what brings me joy.

[04:36] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think, you know, you're really sort of touching on,

[04:40] you know, expectations. Right. Expectations that come from society. Expectations that come from, you know, a million different places. But you're also talking about really this idea of, you know, success.

[04:52] And what does that look like? Because it is. It's different for,

[04:55] you know, everybody. And a lot of people think that to be quote, unquote, successful is to. To, you know, live that life based on what those expectations are. But to your point, that is not.

[05:09] That is not the path. That is not the journey for. For everybody.

[05:13] Kari Hurd: Right, right. And that's not to say that that's not the journey for some people. Right, right. That just wasn't.

[05:19] I mean, it. It was my journey. It wasn't my best journey, if that makes sense. Right. Like, it's the journey I took.

[05:27] It wasn't the right journey for me.

[05:29] I knew it Wasn't the right journey for me.

[05:32] I just didn't know what my right journey was. I never,

[05:38] I don't know if I didn't take the time or I just never entertained or gave myself permission to explore what my right journey is, or if I had inklings of that, I would push them away because of expectations and because of shoulds and because they didn't make sense on paper,

[05:56] I would sort of push them away. And I never really explored them in depth. Um,[06:00] and so,

[06:02] yeah, it just, it. It's really about defining that for yourself. I think that's been the biggest lesson through all of this.

[06:10] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. Well, so then just to kind of go back, you know, to that time before you, you know, really had this discovery.

[06:18] I'm wondering if you can tell us a little bit more about, you know,

[06:21] what that looked like, you know, as a burned out working mom. Like, what did burnout look like for you? You know, were there things that you,

[06:27] you know, signs that maybe you ignored or you brushed off or just sort of like pushed through?

[06:33] Kari Hurd: Yeah, I. I think when you're in it,

[06:36] like, you know, you're in it, right? Cause you just feel the stress.

[06:41] But I think there are definitely signs outside of that stress that you feel. And for me, it was little things like hyper organization. I always used to tell people, like, I had a friend one time tell me, like,

[06:54] he goes, girl, you, you make lists of your lists and you color code both of those lists,

[07:01] right? And like, I. I'm a kid that grew up watching friends. Like, that's, that's my era and I was Monica Geller to a T. Like, everything had a list and there was color coding and there was outlines and things.

[07:14] In hindsight, and not that I'm not organized now, but in hindsight,

[07:17] that really was a control sort of coping mechanism,

[07:21] trauma response, if you will, to the chaos that I felt inside. It was sort of. That was my way to try to keep everything in check. I was terrified that if one little thing fell out of line,

[07:36] the whole house of cards was coming down.

[07:39] Christi Gmyr: Mm,

[07:40] yeah. Yeah. No, that makes sense. Well, and then also,

[07:43] you know, obviously,

[07:46] being a working mom, being a mom at all, you know, is challenging in so many ways. But then you add this other layer of, you know, having a job, having a career, which makes it, you know, harder.

[07:56] And then for you, there's this added layer on top of that where you were a single parent, right? And so you were doing a lot of things, if not everything,

[08:06] you know, on your own. And so I'M wondering if you can talk about that a little bit. Like, what were some of the challenges that you dealt with that were, you know, uniquely specific to your situation as a single parent?

[08:20] Kari Hurd: Yeah, that's a great question. Um,

[08:23] you know, it. It's funny when you're in it and. And all the moms listening know this when you're in it,

[08:28] like I said, you feel the stress. But also, if you were to ask me, like, well, how did you do it? You go, I don't know. I just did it.

[08:36] Recently,

[08:37] I've been watching. My sister's quite a bit younger than me, and she.

[08:40] She's got Little Littles. Like, Little Littles. And of course, they're in all of the chaos of Little Littles, and it's hilarious as an auntie to watch. But, like,

[08:49] she looked at me one time when I was visiting. She goes, how did you do this by yourself? And I was like,

[08:55] I don't know. I just kind of did it.

[08:57] But it got me thinking, and I started looking back and I was like, holy ****. Because I think the thing I didn't real like you again, you know, but you don't sort of realize,

[09:10] like, I didn't have anybody to tag in on those really bad days when they're outnumbering you and they're all throwing tantrums at the same time, and they're like, yeah, that is stressful for any parent anytime.

[09:25] Don't get me wrong. But as a single parent, you don't have that other person to tag in.

[09:31] Right. Even if you've had an amicable separation,

[09:36] there's just something about, like, you can't just be like, dude, I need five minutes.[09:41] You have to go ahead.

[09:43] Christi Gmyr: Oh, I was just gonna ask. Can I just. So I'm understanding, you know, specifically for you, were you in a situation where you were co parenting? Did you have a partner who was helping in some ways, but wasn't necessarily there helping, you know, every day?

[09:57] Like, what. What did that look like for you?

[10:00] Kari Hurd: We were kind of in every other weekend situation,

[10:05] so, like,

[10:06] he was in the picture, but wasn't really there for any sort of help or support in that role.

[10:13] Christi Gmyr: Okay. Okay. So you were really.

[10:15] Kari Hurd: Yep.

[10:16] Christi Gmyr: You were really doing everything on your own.

[10:17] Kari Hurd: It was all me. It was all me. Yeah.

[10:19] Christi Gmyr: Okay. Okay. Well. And so,

[10:22] you know, you talk about essentially how you know a lot of

 people. Yeah. It's stressful for anybody. Like, even listening to you talk when you're like, oh, yeah. You just kind of know it and you look back and you're like, how did I do it?

[10:31] Like, that's what I think about, you know, that's how I feel when I think about,

[10:35] you know, childhood illnesses. We had kids that, you know, for a period of time between the two of them were literally sick every other week. It's one of the most stressful things you can deal with.

[10:44] And looking back, I don't know how we ever did it, but also,

[10:48] there were two of us, right? And so even though I was taking on most of it, if I really felt like I couldn't do something, you know, I had that other person.

[10:56] If you just.

[10:58] You were doing it on your own, which makes it,

[11:00] I would imagine, infinitely more challenging. Right.

[11:04] And so I'm curious, though, because a lot of people don't, I think, necessarily really understand who aren't in those shoes themselves.

[11:12] So I'm curious if there are things that you wish more people understood about being a single parent.

[11:21] Kari Hurd: Yeah, I think the. I think the biggest thing is, you know, as a single parent, I never really wanted anyone to sort of

[11:35] Christi Gmyr: pity

[11:36] Kari Hurd: me,

[11:37] but also sort of.

[11:39] And I was very blessed. I had a lot of people around me who gave me lots of grace. And I think that's the biggest thing, right, is just to have grace.

[11:47] And I think the other thing is just to,

[11:50] like,

[11:52] I don't know a single parent that wouldn't accept help if it was offered. But I also don't know many single parents that will ask for help. Like,

[11:59] in our experience, at least. In my experience, I shouldn't speak for all single parents. Let me clarify. In my experience,

[12:06] asking for help came with stipulations a lot for a lot of different reasons. Not just because of my ex, not just in my life in general. That's just sort of been a theme.

[12:16] And so it was really difficult for me to ask for help.

[12:20] Um,

[12:22] and it was really difficult to accept.

[12:27] Like, I. I never wanted there to be strings. And so I think just always having that grace of, like,

[12:32] if you're going to offer help, just make sure it's clear. Like, listen, this. This is.

[12:37] Let me just take them for an hour to the zoo or whatever.

[12:43] Go it. Just to make sure that that's clear. Because I think a lot of. I. I don't know, at least, like I said that was my experience, was like,

[12:51] am I gonna do something later? Or like,[12:54] is this gonna get held over my head later? Like, I. I don't know.

[12:57] Christi Gmyr: Well, it sounds like, you know, you were personally experiencing some of that. And even maybe in instances where parents are not experiencing that maybe there's still that fear, that concern,

[13:06] like, you know, what are they expecting on the other side of things? Right. So just this idea that,

[13:12] yes, we would love the help and if you're going to offer it, like,

[13:16] know that it may or may not be able to return it later, so don't come and do it with that expectation. Do it because you genuinely want to help.

[13:23] Kari Hurd: Yes, yes. That's not to say that we wouldn't, but you know what I'm saying, it just was always more of that underlying. And again, that was, that was my own experience, but I think just always having that grace to know, like,

[13:36] single parents are doing a lot.

[13:38] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.

[13:40] Well, so then,

[13:42] you know, when you were, you know, in the thick of it, you know, and you were talking about how you were doing everything the way that you should be doing it, the way that you're supposed to be doing it, but it just, it really wasn't working for you.

[13:53] It wasn't lighting you up. How did you finally realize that something needed to change? Like, what was that point for you where you had that,

[14:01] you know, sudden, you know, you refer to it as a subsequent awakening?

[14:05] Kari Hurd: Yeah,

[14:06] well, I,

[14:07] I choose the word awakening because I feel like we overuse the term midlife crisis. Like, on paper it probably looked like a crisis, but like,

[14:15] I learned a lot from it and I was able to literally sort of awaken in me what had been sort of stifled by the shoulds.

[14:24] My realization came when the universe quite literally smacked me upside the head and started just upturning everything.

[14:36] I had been in my ideal job at the time and was asked to shift positions, shift roles.[14:50] Not, I mean, it was fine. It just, I was asked to go back to the classroom. I had been in a different sort of supporting role and I was asked to go back to the classroom and that just wasn't where I was wanting to go.

[14:59] Um,

[15:01] an 11 year relationship that I had been in after my marriage came to an end. And so it was like all of these things that again, on paper looked perfect just sort of started to crumble around me.

[15:14] And it just,

[15:18] I think I just sort of chose to steer into the skid. And I was like, well, if I can't have all the things I think I want, all these things that were going well, if, if you're going to take all those away,

[15:29] then we're just going to burn this whole thing down to the studs and start over.[15:36] And then that, that sort of, that was the pivotal moment and that was like 20, 18, 2019.

[15:42] Christi Gmyr: Okay. Okay. Now, when you did recognize that was that.

[15:47] I mean, how did that.

[15:49] I guess I'm wondering, like, how did that feel for you? Like, was that when you had to sort of admit to yourself, like, hey, this isn't working and we. I do need to change something,[16:00] you know. What was the hardest part about that for you?

[16:04] Um,

[16:07] Kari Hurd: I think to kind of circle back where I started. It was this idea that, okay, well, if none of that's going to work out.

[16:14] And I've never paused to give myself the opportunity or give myself permission to.[16:20] To explore. What would light me up was, like, this moment. I was frustrated. Cause I was like, well, I don't even know what to do next. I don't know what I want.

[16:31] Like, if that's not gonna be my career, I don't know what my career is gonna be. And if that's not the relationship I'm meant to be in, I don't know what that's supposed to look like.

[16:39] And so it was like, just this deep sort of frustration that I didn't know.

[16:46] And you go through this gamut of emotions. Like, I was angry because I hadn't given myself that permission prior or that I hadn't taken the time to explore.

[16:56] I was, like I said, frustrated. It's overwhelming because all of a sudden you're faced with.

[17:02] Because at this point, my kids were still at home.

[17:04] And so I've got these children at home.

[17:08] I've left this career that I've had for 20 years, and now what am I gonna do? And I've gotta support these children.

[17:15] Christi Gmyr: And

[17:18] Kari Hurd: so it's just this whole flood of things. And then on top of that, you've got all the things you're sort of starting to discover about yourself. Right.

[17:30] Christi Gmyr: And if I'm understanding right, it sounds like you. So you left your career without necessarily having that plan in place, without knowing your next step?[17:39] Kari Hurd: Yeah. When they asked me to go back to the classroom, and I did go back for a year,

[17:44] I just. My heart wasn't anymore. And so I was like, okay, well, I'm going to go not do that.

[17:50] We're not going to do that anymore.

[17:53] I explored,

[17:55] like, being an online coach. Because part of what I did during my time in education was coaching teachers, which I really loved. And so I thought, okay, well, I can go do online coaching and help women kind of, you know,[18:08] more on that personal level. And that felt like it was gonna be really fulfilling. There was a whole piece of that that I just wasn't,

[18:16] like, the business side of it. It was a whole thing.

[18:18] And so you're. It's like you're starting over,

[18:22] but you're not in your 20s anymore. You're not sort of adventurous anymore. You're not sort of carefree about like, oh, I can go change my major to this or I can go do that.[18:33] Like you're doing all of that in the throes of real life.

[18:38] Christi Gmyr: Well, and I. And as you get older, I would imagine for a lot of people, you know, the stakes feel much higher, the risks feel much higher of just sort of letting things go.

[18:49] Kari Hurd: Yes.

[18:49] I have to say so in the midst of all of that,

[18:53] having all of the fears as a parent and having all of.

[18:57] Exactly to your point,

[19:00] I was sitting on the couch one day with my oldest and just, we were just kind of chit chatting and we're very close and.

[19:06] And they looked at me and they said, you know, Mom, I know that.

[19:10] I can see that what you're going through is really, really stressful.

[19:14] And I know that you're struggling a lot right now,

[19:17] but I need you to know that I love that I get to watch you and learn alongside you at my age so that I don't have to do it when I'm your age.

[19:29] And like, in that moment. I know, right? I get.

[19:32] Christi Gmyr: That's amazing.

[19:33] Kari Hurd: That was a long time. That was a few years ago. I get teary eyed, but.[19:36] Christi Gmyr: But like, I feel all the emotions just listening to you saying that. Oh, my goodness, yes.

[19:41] Kari Hurd: Um, and so it. I think in that moment,

[19:47] even though there were lots of things still sort of crumbling around me,

[19:52] I knew that I was gonna be okay because my biggest fear was them.

[19:58] And if they were okay watching me struggle.

 And I. I think that was the thing, right? No parent wants their kid to see them struggle.[20:05] Christi Gmyr: Right.

[20:06] Kari Hurd: If they were okay watching me struggle as long as they knew there was a better outcome, then it was going to be fine.

[20:13] Christi Gmyr: Well, and the thing that I love about that too is I feel like so many moms, you know, are hesitant or afraid to do certain things, to make certain moves, to make certain decisions, because to your point, maybe it is going to have a negative impact on our kids in some way.

[20:30] But what I think a lot of times we forget or don't realize is that we're also modeling for them. Right. And we're showing them, you know, that it is okay to,

[20:39] you know, make big changes. It is okay to take chances. It is okay to do things, you know, for ourselves. And so. And if it's okay for us, you know, we're showing them that it's okay for them, too.

[20:50] Kari Hurd: Exactly. And, you know, we actually,

[20:52] she and I revisited that conversation a couple weeks ago, actually,

[20:58] and just reiterated something similar where it was like, you know, just watching all of the things you've done these last few years, mom has given me sort of that permission to be more choosy about my career, make shifts when I need to make shifts.[21:12] And so,

[21:13] you know, at the end of the day,

[21:18] all the struggle was worth it if I could have, you know, if I instilled that in either, let alone, I, I'm my youngest one, isn't one to share stuff like that necessarily.

[21:28] But, like, I, I see it in her too. So.

[21:30] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, no, that's amazing.

[21:32] Kari Hurd: Yeah.

[21:33] Christi Gmyr: Well, and so I'm wondering, you know, so going back to this time, you know, you knew that you didn't want to go back into the classroom. You knew that something needed to change.

[21:41] You know, you weren't sure what those next steps were going to look like. You know, so how,

[21:47] how did you start to move through that? Like, how did you start to really sort of explore and discover and learn about,

[21:56] you know, what was going to be a better fit for you?

[22:00] Kari Hurd: There was a little bit of trial and error.

[22:03] There was a lot of bit of trial and error.

[22:07] But also I,

[22:10] I,

[22:12] I stepped into my spiritual side,

[22:16] which, like, I, I'm not here to sort of preach spirituality, but, like, I really got into journaling, which I had previously absolutely hated,

[22:27] absolutely hated journaling.

[22:28] And I don't even know, like, one day I picked up a journal and just started writing.[22:34] I had been working with a coach at the time, and she's like, just, just try it. And I was like, ugh.

[22:40] And it, you know, I uncovered a lot. And I think the biggest question. So if you're someone listening who's sort of in that stage, I think the biggest question you can ask yourself is just to be really honest, like, I do workshops now on really creating that vision of what you want to feel on the day to day.

[23:00] Like, not what you want it to necessarily look like. Like, not what house you want to live in, not what car you want to drive, not what actual job you want to have, but how do you want to feel in your career?

[23:11] How do you want to feel in your home? How do you want to feel in,

[23:16] you know, just when you're out in the world and really start tapping into that,

[23:21] because once I did that, then the opportunities that brought those feelings,

[23:26] I started finding them because I, that became sort of my, I call it My inner gps, right. Like, that became my compass for like,

[23:34] okay, if I'm gonna take this job,

[23:37] is it gonna give me those feelings that I said I wanted? And if not,

[23:41] like,

[23:43] I, I'd rather wait for a different job. And, and that in and of itself is super scary, right? To like, say no to opportunities where you're like, oh, my God, I, I, like, I need a job and I should take this job.

[23:52] Cause it's a good job.

[23:54] But if I'm going to be unhappy six months from now,

[23:59] then there's no point.

[24:00] Christi Gmyr: Well, and it sort of raises the question of what is a good job? Right. Again, that idea, you know, it's gonna mean different things for different people. A good. If you're not happy, is it really a good job?

[24:09] I don't know.

[24:10] Kari Hurd: Exactly.

[24:13] Yeah. So really just tapping into, like I said, those energies and those emotions and those things you want to feel on the day to day,

[24:22] and then that's what you'll start attracting. And it's. It's not overnight because you have to. There's also a piece if you've gotten this far without,

[24:30] like,

[24:32] my intuition's pretty strong. I spent a lot of years ignoring it because it told me things that didn't sort of make sense with the shoulds. Right? Like my intuition would say abc and the shoulds were saying X, Y, Z, and those things didn't match.

[24:47] And so you start ignoring your intuition. So it, it takes a minute to really allow yourself to start listening to that. But I just, I think that's probably the second thing, right.[24:58] Is just once you tap into,

[25:01] okay, what do I want to feel? I want to feel freedom or I want to feel peace or.[25:06] And really getting clear, I always tell people, get past the. Even, like the common ones. Right? Like, I want to be happy. Well,

[25:13] duh, Everybody wants to be happy.

[25:15] What does happy mean to you? Like, peel back the layers of the onion a little bit for me. Absolutely right. For me. I. I came out of a meditation one time, and this was pretty early in my journey.

[25:26] And I think this was one of those turning points. Like I said, I had started journaling a little bit.

[25:31] I found a meditation on an app that I use. And when we came out of the meditation,

[25:38] she had instructed us to like,

[25:41] pinpoint words that had come up first and try to create a mantra out of it.

[25:45] And my mantra at that time was, I am living a simple, effortless life full of joy, abundance, and love. And I don't know it, like, literally when I opened my eyes, that just spilled out of me and onto the paper.

[25:59] And so then every day I just lived towards that.

[26:05] Right. Is this gonna bring me one of those things? Every decision I made is, is it gonna bring me joy? Is it gonna bring me abundance? Is it gonna help me feel love?[26:13] And is it gonna keep my life simple? And so now, like I said on paper, my life probably looks ridiculous to some people. I'm 51 years old, living in a 700 square foot studio.

[26:25] I love every second of it because my life is simple. I have created simplicity for myself. And again,

[26:31] not just because my kids aren't at home. I think that if the five of us lived in the same dwelling,

[26:38] we'd probably kill each other for different reasons than we would have before. But at the same time, I think that simplicity would still be there. Right?

[26:45] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, no, absolutely.

[26:48] Well, and one of the things that, you know, I always sort of encourage people to think about, regardless of what it is that we're talking about or what it is that we're thinking about is, you know, with any decision that you make, with any action that you take,

[26:59] what is the goal, what is it that you're ultimately trying to accomplish? And how are these decisions helping you move towards or away from them? Right. And it sounds like essentially that's what you're describing.

[27:11] Right, but in the terms of how do you actually want to live your life? Like, what does that really mean and look like for you, you know, and having that picture in mind for when you make those decisions.

[27:21] Kari Hurd: Exactly. And I always say, like,

[27:26] I don't coach often, but when I do and somebody says, well,

[27:30] I want a six figure a month job or whatever,

[27:35] okay, that's fine,

[27:37] but what's the feeling underneath that? Like, why do you want that?

[27:42] And because the thing is, the stuff,

[27:47] the job, the cars, the house, even,

[27:49] you know, to have a partner, the stuff is a means to an end. And until you know what that end is,

[27:57] the stuff isn't going to bring you any of the things you think it's going to because you don't even know what it is you're looking for.

[28:02] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, no, absolutely.

[28:04] Well, so, okay, so as you were,

[28:06] you know, going through all of this and making these decisions and, you know, moving into the life that really felt more aligned with you. You know, you talk about you ditched the expectations, right?

[28:17] That was the life you were moving away from.

[28:19] And so more specifically, like, what did that look like for you, you know, to actually ditch those expectations and to let go of some, like some of the pressure that a lot of people Feel, you know, that you might have felt to hold onto those.

[28:34] Kari Hurd: Yeah,

[28:36] I'm going to be, I mean, I'm happy to answer that question. I'm going to tell you that I don't know that the way I did it was necessarily effective or efficient at the time, but it was the journey that I needed to take.

[28:45] So I, like I said, I started an online coaching business that did not go well. Mostly because I didn't really know what I was doing on the business end of it.

[28:55] In the meantime I was working odd part time jobs that were not always covering all of the bills. And so I had that added stress,

[29:06] which is why I kind of circle back and I'll finish answering your question. But when I say like, figure out the feeling you want first because I didn't know that feeling yet.

[29:17] And so I'm like I said, it was a lot of that trial and error of like, oh well, I'll go do

 this part time job for a while while I try to build my coaching business, but I don't really know if I even want to be a coach.

[29:26] And so it was a lot of like trying things on that didn't necessarily fit either.

[29:33] Yeah,

[29:34] like going into the fitting room with like six different things and none of them fit. And so that's what I, I spent a lot of time doing.

[29:43] And in the meantime, you know, like I said, this is where that sort of midlife crisis perception comes in. Right.

[29:49] Christi Gmyr: You're.

[29:49] Kari Hurd: I was jumping from part time job to part time job and I was still not really happy. Cause I didn't know what I was looking for.

[29:57] Like I had started to, but I still, it was like, oh, so maybe like I forever I had blonde hair for most of my life and then I went dark and I was like, well maybe if I do that, like it was silly little things.

[30:08] And I was like, well, I'll try that on and see if that works. Oh, that doesn't work. Okay, goodbye. And then I'll try that on. And again, still not having that sort of compass.[30:18] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, but when you said a minute ago, you know, you're like, oh, I don't know if this is necessarily the best way to do it, but I mean, I completely agree with you and I can certainly think of, you know, examples from my own life and you know, which I'm not going to get into but just this idea that sometimes we do have to try different things.

[30:33] Sometimes we have to go through that process of exploring and learning and making mistakes and getting it wrong to ultimately land with,

[30:42] find what is. Right. And sometimes where we end up is exactly where we started, except with more knowledge and awareness of like, why that is a space that we want to be in.

[30:53] Kari Hurd: Yes, that's. I love that. Yes,

[30:56] hundred percent. Right. You, you end up circling back around, but it's like you have to sort of see how that all fits together. So it.

[31:04] Christi Gmyr: Yeah.

[31:04] Kari Hurd: Not that the trial and error itself was bad. It was just that, like, it was difficult. It wasn't the easiest route to take.

[31:12] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.

[31:13] Kari Hurd: Right. So it's not that it wasn't the right thing for me to do. It just was a difficult thing to do sometimes.

[31:19] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. Well, and difficult things can be uncomfortable. Right. But uncomfortable, like being in a state of discomfort is not necessarily a bad thing. Right. A lot of times people try to avoid being uncomfortable, but sometimes we have to deal with that discomfort to be able to, you know,

[31:36] push through it and come out, you know, in a better place. Yeah. So no, that makes a lot of sense.

[31:40] Kari Hurd: And I think a lot of the,

[31:42] the trial and error also, like,

[31:44] it helped me. The biggest thing it helped me get over was other people's perception. Right.

[31:49] Like here I was, this whole grown woman with children who left a 25 year or 20 year career at the time it to go work part time at the local coffee shop.

[32:01] Like,

[32:02] people have opinions about that.

[32:05] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, but they're irrelevant.

[32:08] Kari Hurd: Correct. But I had to learn that lesson. Right.

[32:10] Christi Gmyr: Like, that was a lot.

[32:11] Kari Hurd: I had like friends and family who were like, are you doing okay? Are you, Are you sure you're okay? Like they were. And again, I, I'm blessed that they were concerned for me, but it was like I had to get over that,

[32:23] like worrying about what they thought and that's how I needed to do like that. That was the lesson in that for me was like, it doesn't matter what they think.

[32:31] Is this making you happy? Then do it.

[32:33] Christi Gmyr: And that can be really hard because I mean, to your point, a lot of the people who are going to have opinions about the way we live our lives are not even necessarily people who are out there trying to judge us or anything like that.

[32:45] A lot of times they're the people who really care about us. They're really well intentioned. But what they are seeing is the quote unquote, right decisions, the right choices, the right way to live your life.

[32:55] That's through their lens, from their perspective, based on their values and what is maybe going to be right for them isn't necessarily going to fit for, for you or for anybody.[33:05] Else. Right. And so that can be a really hard thing.

[33:08] Kari Hurd: Yeah, 100%. And so that, that was definitely the lesson I had to learn from that.

[33:13] Christi Gmyr: Okay,

[33:14] so like, looking back, you know, if you, you know, could talk to your past,

[33:18] you know, during all those years when you did struggle with burnout,

[33:21] is there anything that you wish you could go back and, and say,

[33:25] I

[33:26] Kari Hurd: mean, I'm not one to live with regrets. Like, I've lived through some difficult things and they've brought me here. And I think a lot of us are at that, at, you know, we believe that.

[33:37] But if I had to go teach myself something, I think it would be just to give myself permission. Even as far back, like I said as college, when this kind of started, to give myself permission to explore the,

[33:55] the thing that didn't make sense.

[33:58] Christi Gmyr: Okay.

[33:59] Kari Hurd: Make room for things that don't fit a certain mold if it brings you excitement. You know, I one time,

[34:08] like third year college, I had kind of a daydream or a vision or whatever, just randomly of like being this like high powered business executive,

[34:18] flying and jet setting around the world and do like doing all these things.

[34:22] That's not my personality at all.

[34:25] But it excited the **** out of me.

[34:30] So I took accounting. I didn't do very well in accounting. And so I was like, oh, see, that's silly, I shouldn't do that.

[34:36] I totally disregarded how much excitement that brought me and fell immediately into,

[34:42] oh, well, that doesn't make sense. So I'm not gonna do that. And so I think I would tell my younger self at all the phases too. Cause like it, it's happened all throughout.[34:50] Right? That's how you get sort of to the maximum level of burnout is you just, I think I would just say just explore those things even when they don't make sense.

[34:57] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, no, absolutely.

[34:59] Well, so then for the moms who are listening, who are feeling inspired, you know, and are wanting to start,

[35:07] you know, exploring or making some of these similar kinds of shifts, but maybe they don't know where to start or maybe it is feeling really scary for them.

[35:15] Like, what do you think is maybe a good starting point?

[35:19] Kari Hurd: I really think to take pen to paper, even if you're not a journaler, like I mentioned earlier, I, I literally hated it, you guys, I hated it.

[35:28] I hated it.

[35:30] I thought it was stupid. I never got anything out of it.

[35:33] But just to really take pen to paper and start journaling the feelings that you're having and not. And again, like digging deeper and I know you're people listening are going.

[35:44] I don't have time to sit and, like, explore my feelings. I know you don't because you're a busy mom. You don't.

[35:49] But finding some way,

[35:51] whether it's recording a voice note on your phone,

[35:54] whether it's taking pen to paper, whether it's recording an actual, like, note on your phone, whatever it is,

[36:00] start paying attention to the bigger feelings. Like, yes, you're stressed and yes, you're burnt out,[36:08] but what are some things that bring you joy? And what kind of joy are you looking for? Because joy is different for everybody, Right.

[36:15] Are you looking. Are you an adventurous joy kind of person? Are you, like, I'm quiet, calm,

[36:22] simple. I.

[36:23] Somebody once told me I give off old lady energy. And I was like, all right, whatever.

[36:27] Christi Gmyr: Like, so what.

[36:30] Kari Hurd: What kind of joy? What are those words that bring you joy again?

[36:34] Adventure, excitement, calm, peace, whatever it is.

[36:40] And just really start tapping into that and find,

[36:44] you know, you don't have to uproot your whole life like I did. I tell people that all the time. Like, I. I did it the hard way. And again, we already covered the fact that that that was my way and that's how I did it.

[36:53] You can do it more simply, like, if. If you're a busy mom,

[36:57] find one or two of those energies or emotions that you really want to be a part of your everyday life and find ways to infuse them.

[37:08] Christi Gmyr: Yeah.

[37:08] Kari Hurd: And what you'll find is. It snowballs. Right? Like I said, I came out with that mantra about simplicity.

[37:13] It took me a few years to really get to simple, but it's. You find little ways, right. You start using those words again as compass points or as.

[37:22] As gauges in the moment of, like,

[37:25] even silly little things like what you want to have for breakfast.

[37:30] Christi Gmyr: Right.

[37:31] Kari Hurd: Like, is this going to bring me the feeling that I really want to have about myself in my day if I eat this for breakfast?

[37:38] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. Well, to. And to your point, like, even though even the small things, right. It's not just necessarily, like, just the big decisions, but really just everything that you're doing as you, like, move throughout your day to day.[37:51] Kari Hurd: Yeah.

[37:51] Christi Gmyr: So, yeah.

[37:53] Kari Hurd: And I think the other one big lesson I always like to leave people with, too, is somebody else's solution is not necessarily gonna work for you.

[38:05] Christi Gmyr: Yeah.

[38:06] Kari Hurd: So if you see your bestie

 or your soccer mom friend or your neighbor or your sibling or whatever,

[38:15] who's living their best life,

[38:18] a. What you see on the outside is different than what they're experiencing on the inside. So just Take that, you know, but also how they got there may not be the right way for you.

[38:30] And that's why it's so important to get introspective about what you want.

[38:34] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, no, absolutely right.

[38:36] Yeah. So, I mean, and this has all been really great. I really do think, I love it when people come on and share their personal stories because I think there's so much value in, you know, knowing that we're not alone in our experiences.

[38:49] And I really think that we can learn a lot from each other. So I really appreciate this.[38:53] You know, for people who are wanting to, you know,

[38:57] connect with you or follow you or learn more about you and the work that you do, where can they go to do that?

[39:03] Kari Hurd: I. In the interest of simplicity, I've actually kind of gotten rid of quite a lot of platforms, which has been nice.

[39:10] They can find me on Instagram. It's Ari. I can't remember if there's a dot in there. Ari Herd or Ari Herd, one of the two.

[39:18] Christi Gmyr: Okay. When you sent me, I don't see a dot in here. That one. Okay.[39:23] Kari Hurd: It's that one. So no dot.

[39:25] Okay. I think I changed it at some point. So at karihurd, over on Instagram,

[39:30] I'm on LinkedIn, which I know isn't always sort of super woo woo, but I'm over on LinkedIn, I think. Same, same handle.

[39:37] They can also just email me kari herd gmail.com and that's.

[39:44] Or whatever email I gave you to put in the show notes, like either of those is fine too.

[39:50] Christi Gmyr: You had also given me a substack.

[39:53] Kari Hurd: Oh

[39:55] Christi Gmyr: yeah.

[39:55] Kari Hurd: They can find me there. I always forget about that one. That's more my like creative outlet.

[40:00] Christi Gmyr: Okay. So lots of different options. So all the options.

[40:05] Kari Hurd: All the options,

[40:07] yeah. And I'm more of a, like, if they find me on a platform, if they shoot me a dm, I'm happy to respond and it will always be me. I don't have any auto replies set up or anything like that.

[40:16] They'll always. As long as they tell me where they found me. Because sometimes, you know, you get the, the messages, the DMs and you're like,

[40:22] they tell me they found me from you. Right. I would love to connect with anybody.[40:28] I've got a,

[40:29] a journal with full of prompts that I've used since the start of my journey.

[40:34] People are interested in that. I've got other sort of trackers and worksheets and different things like that that I've used that have helped me to discover some things.[40:44] Christi Gmyr: So, okay, great. This is awesome. So, you know, as always, I will make sure that I include all those things in the show notes, you know, for anybody who wants to connect with you.

[40:56] And so before we, you know, before we wrap up for today, you know, I always like to ask, you know, if you could leave. I know you just gave your two big pieces of a second ago, so I don't know if there's anything else, but if you could leave them,

[41:06] the listeners, with one final message, one final piece of advice, 1. What would it be?

[41:12] Kari Hurd: I think the first big thing you have to do before you can start any of this kind of work is to give yourself permission to do it.

[41:19] And so if you're listening right now and you can't give that to yourself, this is me giving you that permission,

[41:25] and this is me just saying, you know, you're. You're not alone in this. Because I think sometimes we do feel really isolated about it. Right. Like, everybody sort of seems to have everything together all the time,

[41:37] and that's just not the case.

[41:39] Right.

[41:39] Christi Gmyr: Which.

[41:39] Kari Hurd: So I. Why I love the premise of your podcast. Like, we're not alone in any of this.

[41:45] So just give yourself some grace, give yourself permission,

[41:49] and know that by you explore, even just exploring things that might light you up,[41:56] there's no reason to feel guilt about that. You're not taking anything from your kids. You're not taking anything from your spouse if you have one. You're not taking anything from any of your friends or family.

[42:05] Pour. And we hear it all the time, so it feels like it. There's lip service to it, but pouring into ourselves truly is the best gift we can give to other people.

[42:15] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, absolutely. That's. That's amazing. I love how you put that so well. Thank you again. You know, this has been. This has been really wonderful. I really enjoyed talking to you,

[42:25] you know, and as always, for the moms who are listening, if any of this resonates, if you. You found it to be helpful,[42:32] you know, please, for starters, you know,

[42:34] feel free to connect with Kari or, you know, please share this podcast with any other moms who could maybe use some support,

[42:41] because as always, you know, we are all in this together.

[42:45] Kari Hurd: Yes. Yes. Well, thank you so much for having me, Christi. This has been a great conversation.

[42:49] Christi Gmyr: Yes, absolutely.